Matt O'Connor and "his" F4J - My experience

Comments are open

2008-09-30T08:10:00.001+01:00

Please feel free to comment or ask questions, but please do not sink to Matt O'Connors level, despite what you might think of him.

F4J is Dead - The Last Word (In Matt's words)

2008-09-22T02:38:00.008+01:00

(WARNING - This post contains foul language throughout)

F4J is Dead - The Last Word in Matt's Words

Get this. I have had a bucket load of shit from people banging on about the F4J name which has about as much value now as a Ferrari badge on a fucking Skoda.

People who paid for some excellent publications to help them and 12 months subscription to the forum now think they 'own' part of F4J, if not all of F4J. (Actually, most just expect to get what they paid for and not be ripped off)

People who have NOTHING to do with F4J think they own the name!

Well help yourself now boys and girls because with the people I'm about to introduce you to, it will be worth jack shit in a matter of months and you¹ll be running to distance yourself from the cretins filling the vacuum and trashing the name.

Rumours abound that somebody wants to buy the name. 'Buy' F4J. You can't place a monetary value on an idea, on a vision or an ideal. If it was about money I'd have never ploughed £50K in the first place. F4J is not and never will be for sale. F4J is over, dead, kaput.

If it was about money I'd have taken adverts from the vermin solicitors like FNF have or asked for government financial handcuffs. We never took a fucking penny. We were self supporting and were our own men.

You see so many people have now perverted the idea of F4J with charities, copycats, homophobes and god knows what else, that when you remove the guardians of the campaign you are left with a pack of jokers and wannabes stamping their own prejudices over our beautiful ideal.

We also have more founding members of F4J now than we ever had members! Fucking amazing because I can only remember one chap in East Anglia helping me out at the beginning not the hundreds of other 'founders.'

We also have people complaining that we are not:

a) a charity

b) a democracy

c) holding the dicks of all the other fathers groups that can't piss straight as an act of 'unity'.

Has nobody read what F4J bloody stood for???

Now for my sins, some bloke who joined F4J a few weeks ago, climbed a roof without telling anyone and wrote a letter, now thinks he has the right to launch into a vicious personal attack on me and then try and drag my family into it.

(Matt knew about the stunt before it happened and wanted me to phone him hourly while I was up there. F4J SW had contacted the press 3 weeks before I did the stunt and several newspapers had contacted me including the Gazette and Herald who came to my house and interviewed me. They produced the press release below 2 weeks before the stunt.)

There was a press release 2 weeks BEFORE I did it!

The letter I posted on the forum.

Not sure where this vicious personal attack is or any attempt to do anything to his family. If there even is one - it didn't come from me!.

Everyone heard that he had left - but all the nastiness happened AFTER hesupposedly had. So why?)

Hasn't anyone told him I left!

(Yes he told us that - but he hadn't and this diatribe proves it)

I gone. I exited stage left. Used the escape hatch. Dropped through the trap door au revoir, adios, ciao, or to re-arrange a popular anglo-saxon phrase so that he can understand: 'off and fuck'.

This is a bloke who by his own admission, on his arrest, was offered a bribe by the Police.

(Am trying to work out how telling him that I had been offered a bribe is bad? He was paranoid about being infiltrated. I suggested that as I had been bribed, it was more than likely that others had been too. I would have thought that to any normal balanced person, telling him this would have demonstrated that I was not interested in monetry reward. I just want to see my kids)

A man who appeared from nowhere and was removed from the forum by the moderators for more underage shit-stirring than Gary Glitter at a Vietnamese children's home.

(I decided to make this blog as a direct result of being removed by him from the forum. Not one of my posts were ever removed. I don't think anything I posted was controversal. In short I don't know what he is talking about. The only explanation I got was from 'Jenny' a few days later. But her email is not backed up by facts)

If people aren't happy with the transition from F4J to another group at least have the cojones to get out as I did when I left FNF and set up F4J.

The reason I am writing this is so that he has something to put on his blog about me as he has threatened to 'expose' the person that probably made the biggest difference to fathers rights in the last 30 years.

Well I hate to shatter any illusions here, but get to the back of the queue of my fan club on that one and given I have left - what is he going to write about on his bitching blog ice fucking cream cones?

I mean, anyone who can read can find out all about me in my little confessional tome from last year.

The reality is that homophobic hermaphrodites like this with their shrivelled testicles and over hydrated imaginations spend more time attacking their own people and banging out to internet porn than they do fighting for their kids.

Is that going to be their contribution to the fathers movement eh? Fucking harassing me and my family with their vicious, nasty attacks. Their kids will be so proud of them.

This chap, who nobody has ever really heard of, has now resorted to the sort of threats and intimidation that me and my family have had to endure for the last 6 years and provide ample evidence why I was right to leave this movement. No wonder all the talent has abandoned ship it is because of people like them.

(I haven't made threats and I haven't intimidated anyone - it was somewhat the other way around)

And why? Because this guy was asked to show some respect to key people in this movement, people who should deserve and command some acknowledgement yet during the five minutes since this chaps arrival on the scene just weeks ago, he now thinks he is some oracle and expert on this movement and condemns me for being a liability and idiot.

Yes, I agree. Idiot for trying to help road-side faeces like him.

Further he resorts to the same tired old 'drunken' smears which given I am virtually tee total demonstrates his comprehensive ignorance of me, but I have to ask what is he imbibing given his dysfucktional behaviour? A pint of bitter and twisted?

And how dare these people speculate about my private life and personal relationships.

You know nothing about my private life. Just because I ran F4J it doesn't mean you own a piece of me or have a right to comment on my private life in the same way I don't have a right to comment on yours.

As one man, you encapsulate everything that threatens to condemn this movement to history. Men consumed by a fatal cocktail of arrogance and bitterness who seek to rubbish anyone who disagrees with them.

They know fuck all. They have no idea.

You think this was easy? You think this was a great gig? What about the copycats that promised so much? Where did their money go when they were struck off at Companies House?

What credibility did they have? What about their media skills, their strategy, their organisation? All those 'genius' people that run off or were kicked out never to be seen again?

We ran the best campaign group in the world.

It was the slickest, fastest moving campaign model that anyone had ever seen - £11.75million of coverage on a budget of £250 in just one recent demo, leader comments in the Sun, widespread support, a household name on the front pages of every newspaper in this country and you think you can lecture me on how we can do it better?

In thirty years nobody else has even come close and all you can fucking do is put up a hateful blog and some fence posts.

So what fucked up bullshit is going in this blog eh? What answers will you give people, what hope will you supply to the needy, what help will you provide to the desperate as you chase people like me away from doing anything to help those that deserve it.

You ain't helping anyone are you? People like you don't want to help other dads or the kids you bullshit merchants, Mister Whippy's and coprophiliacs just want to shit on the faces of people that tried to make a difference.

You don't know what its been like to walk five steps in my shoes let alone 6 fucking years, to give up time with my kids to fight for people like you, to give up my career to deal with the shit and flack and sit in the fucking hot seat and take the death threats, threats to my family's safety, shit from the government on one hand and people like you on the other you couldn't do one fucking jot of what we did big boy in the last six years because you couldn't handle it because you can't take one jot of criticism without resorting to vilifying the people responsible.

People like you are the reason why this movement has been crippled. You are the enemy within, the scum on the fungus of infighting, doing the governments work, dividing people not uniting them, creating chaos where we had discipline and order if people like you had been left with any say the movement would never have got off the fucking runway.

We would have crashed and burnt on take off.

I can only hope and pray that men of hate like you will be consumed by your own perverted views before you extinguish the last vestiges of hope, strangling the talent and optimism out of this movement through your actions, spreading like cancer through the movement.

You see with the fuck-up merchants of misery and the homophobics, I see everything that fucked this mission up. Our biggest challenge wasn't HM government it was people like these who did there best to bring me down and wreck Fathers 4 Justice since day one.

People with grudges, names to trash, characters to assassinate, axes to grind, prejudices to bear, women haters, homophobics, Mattophobics, books to sell, egos to feed, the deluded fantasists that think that they can do better. You reckon eh?

Are you going to change the world with yet another blog slagging off Matt O¹Connor?

Whose next? Did you blog about how much you hate your ex-wife? Did that make you feel better? What about the next person who pisses you off, they next? What about your kids are you going to turn on them next?

Is that the some total of your talent? To join the haters and slaggers who stalk the internet with their poisonous barbs? Just listen to that hate, how it overwhelms and kills off the spirit of Fathers 4 Justice - the spirit of hope, of justice and equality.

What place does hate have in an organisation of hope?

(It doesn't O'Connor. Have I posted anything hateful? anything like this? This is the only hateful thinkg I have seen since I became a member and it came from you! All I have done and am going to continue to do, is to expose you for the fraud that you are, the lies you have told, the threats you have made, the money you have taken from the vulnerable and the continual bullshit you feed the papers and anyone else that will listen. The people that you take for a ride and lie to have a right to know what you're really like.)

Matt O'Connor this, Matt O'Connor that, drunk, fucked up, criminal whatever else you want to throw at me you fuckwit. You know NOTHING.

I'll settle for my kids and my family, my career, the accolades and acknowledgements afforded to me during these last six years because whatever you think of me I was the the only person stupid enough to do the job and make the sacrifices that needed to be made.

Because unlike others I NEVER walked away. I never went 'I'm alright Jack' as just about every other dad has once their case is sorted, no I started something AFTER my case was sorted. I gave my life, my soul, my heart and nearly my sanity to helping people like you.

This Matt O'Connor gave you something you could never have imagined and may well never see again in your lifetime, but I was also a man who was privileged to work with some amazingingly brave and talented people, people we will recognise on the new archived web site. People who made this journey an historic adventure.

Dear all, it is because of scum like this that if I could have burnt F4J down to the ground I would have because I never want to be associated with the people like this.

The kids of these dads must feel real proud of their fathers and the contribution they are making in fucking up and wrecking six years progress and taking the hope we gave fathers and crushing it to dust and bitterness.

To everyone else, left clinging to the wreckage, if you give these people the time of day, if you allow them to fester or prevail, then this movement faces total wipeout.

FNF is discredited, F4J is on the ocean floor where it rightly belongs and the copycat groups and people like this are trampling the name and reputation we left behind.

There has never been a more critical moment in the history of this movement in this country.

Do not let these men of hate and bullshit prevail over the men of hope, keep that flame alive, keep hope burning, keep shining the light into the darkness of the secret courts and never let bastards like this grind you down because one day hope will prevail and dreams of justice will become a reality.

Finally, if I have learnt one lesson in this journey, it is that I also need to change. I cannot afford to start becoming like my enemy or the men of hate. I need time out to rediscover my own humanity and the forgiveness that I talk about but am struggling to find in myself. I find it profoundly difficult when people involve my family and I need to spare them from the actions of people like this and I hope each of you understands how difficult this has been for some of us, but that it must be done for their sakes as much as my own.

In my local garage this morning a young man behind the counter had read an article in a paper about us you and me and the good people in F4J - and he said 'I had no idea it was you, respect mate, respect.'

Shame some of the people we were campaigning for never afforded F4J the same love and recognition and that¹s why as founder and guardian of the values and ethos of F4J, I did what needed to be done.

F4J is dead.

Long live F4J.

Roll on the Union.

I'll miss many of you and thanks for the great memories. Keep the pressure on and the flag flying. I'm off now to build my new project and walk again in the sunlight.

Matt O'Connor

Re:Grow up

2008-09-20T18:09:00.001+01:00

(My comments in purple)

Tim,

You were removed by us, not Matt, for flagrantly encouraging people to write in and complain about F4J on the forum. (I have never done anything of the sort and who exactly is 'us'?)

We have published numerous forum warnings over the last six months informing people on the forum they will be removed without notice if they are disruptive or cause us cause for concern. (I have every post I made right up to the time I was taken off - I will add them to this blog as and when I have time. I will not allow these people to get away with their perverse lies)

Further, given you have been around for a very short period of time, you have treated the team behind F4J (not including Matt O'Connor) with absolute contempt and disregard and ignored their views, opinions and considerable experience. (I have had no dealings with anyone behind F4J except Nick Langford and Michael Cox and I was talking to and consulting Nick throughout, even after I had been removed from the forum, without any reason being given. I am not going to counter these accusations with my words, I will simply add our communications for everyone to read for themselves.)

You ran roughshod over them and did your own thing without consulting anyone.

You could have written in and asked us about your removal - you did not. (as a paying member I would have expected to have been told I had been removed and the reasons why. Instead I contacted Nick Langford who was as surprised as me. He looked on the membership list for me and could not even see me on the banned list. He said "it appears you have been removed completely, it's as though you were never there")

So in the space of just two weeks since Matt's departure (reality check - he has left to focus in his business) (unfortunately this is not true, he is still posting on the forum, he is threatening people and still trying to control everything) we now have homophobic copycat groups running wild trampling our reputation and you have set up a blog about 'the real Matt O'Connor' to keep everyone informed with the latest updates 'about Matt' - what are you going to write about - Matt's ice cream cones? (When I mentioned the damage done to F4J to him on the phone, he said "he knew what he was doing, it was all part of his plan and only he knew the big picture and that son of F4J would be much bigger and better than anything the world had ever seen." He went on to say that 'it' would be announced in early October,)

And this from a man who begged Matt for a signed copy of his book just weeks ago. (I wonder how anyone would know that Matt had given me a book unless this was written or dictated by him? I DO NOT beg anyone for anything. Matt kindly offered me a copy of his book and I asked him if he would sign it. Nick langford was there as a witness to this)

Organisations have rules to keep things from descending into chaos and anarchy which is exactly what we have witnessed with you (now I am an anarchist?) and with the copycat groups.

The only reason for the forum's continuing existence is to provide help to genuine people who need real help until this transitional period is over and the new organisation is up and running.

At that point I doubt you'd see Matt O'Connor for dust ever again given the way you and others have treated the man and his family for doing more than anyone else has done in thirty years.

Your children will be very proud of you and the homophobics for trashing the F4J name and the man behind it as well as taking fathers rights so far backwards we will need a telescope to see you.

(I am not homophobic, I have had nothing to do with any copycat groups, except that in the hours after Matt folded F4J I tried to stop copycat groups forming. As for trashing the good name of F4J, he deliberately did that all by himself)

Jenny

Re: Grow up

2008-09-20T03:32:00.000+01:00

But he hasn't left has he?

Who took me off the forum and why?

I am a fully paid up member and have not broken any rules. I have not even had the courtesy of an email to say I had been taken off.

Other members have the right to know that he hasn't gone anywhere.

He threw me off the forum because I did not bend under his thinly veiled threats. If you support someone who is actively trying to stop others from trying to get the law changed, then you are backing the wrong horse.

Tim

Grow up

2008-09-20T02:04:00.000+01:00

http://mattoconnorf4j.blogspot.com/

Grow up Tim and concentrate on changing the law, not pursuing somebody who has done more for this movement that most and who has left - a fact you and many other people seem unable to accept.

If it really has come to this and homophobia then god help you all.

Jenny

F4J Admin Team

Email from Matt - the threat

2008-09-16T08:05:00.001+01:00

Hi Tim,

Just to add to what I said yesterday, I think it would be a serious error of judgement to go in with anyone other than the very best people who understand and know the political turf and who have been doing this for years. (struggling to find much evidence of much success lobbying MP's)

Experience is critical as is message delivery. Putting it bluntly you have no mandate and don’t represent any organisation and would be there as individual fathers which allows politicians to dismiss you on the basis that ‘every case is different.’ (I don't have a mandate? I have as much mandate as the next father who has been screwed by the courts. As for not representing any organisation - that was because he had killed it 10 days earlier)

I would be extremely disappointed if the meeting was not rearranged to include Michael Cox and if possible Nick Langford who CAN deliver a succinct, punchy message in minimum time with maximum effect.

Opportunities can wait – there should be no rush to squander them.

I think that if you ignore people like Coxy you will do yourself immense damage in the longer term with the future plans for the fathers movement such as people’s ability to trust you and your judgement given the meeting was rearranged without consulting them and now you are taking somebody else with you, again without consultation. (I was not aware that I needed permision to lobby an MP - please bear in mind this email was sent to me AFTER Matt had left!)

If you want to play a part in the big picture these guys have to be consulted and included. However, don’t take our advice, after all, what do we know?

Don’t respond to me as I’ll be away for the rest of the week but feel free to liaise with Nick.

Regards

Matt

PS I see that after wanting me there, you never mentioned it yesterday. (I had wanted him there, but this was before he had closed F4J. Now I was struggling to take him seriously. Not only that but the meeting had been rearranged at short notice. I considered the meeting important and with the party conference coming up, it needed to happen now and not later. Please note: I got this meeting because I thought it would help not just me, but everyone in the same boat. It was certainly not out of any malice, as it has been painted) I hadn't mentioned him being there because Coxy had told me the day before that Matt couldn't make it on the new date.

And the reply

2008-09-15T08:36:00.000+01:00

When one is in politics, one has to expect to be criticised. Other opinions are voiced to make change so as to mature and progress Given your reponse, I now believe that my earlier decision to withdraw was correct. I was asked by other members to come back into the forum, which is why I made the application to re-join the forum, being a fully paid up F4J member.

It is a pity that the leadership is so confused, and quite clearly incapable of realising the full potential of its membership.

Thanks for the personal comments about my mental capacity it reinforces my original decision.
Regards

Peter Semenenko

Email from F4J to one of it's paid up members

2008-09-15T08:04:00.003+01:00

(This message was written a full 10 days AFTER Matt had supposedly left and was written without the knowledge of the moderator Nick Langford) Although not signed by anyone the rhetoric is unmistakable.

We are no longer taking applications for memberships however we are surprised you would want to join an organisation you have been so critical of and given your personal attacks on people who have done more for this movement than you sadly ever will. There are plenty of other groups out there catering for the lunatic fringe which may offer you more suitable
accomodation.

Forum post - To the Fathers Movement - from Matt O'Connor

2008-09-10T13:11:00.000+01:00

To the Fathers Movement,

To the people trying to tear me and my family down, who have used children in a way to attack me that no Judge or lawyer has ever done; god forgive you for what you have done.

To those who attack and rail at me; devote your energies now to tearing down the system, not the person who did the most in a lifetime (with the help of others), to do exactly that.

To the people complaining I have gone, you wanted me gone, so here is your opportunity to demonstrate what you can do.

To the people hung up on the name, move on. You can't sail a ship without a captain or fly a plane without a pilot. The name will be torn to a million pieces and tarnished beyond recognition. It has already begun.

To the Americans, free your country of your neutered leadership and it's phony, criminal legitimacy. It is a perversion of everything I ever stood for. Rid yourself of charity and commit to direct action or condemn the next generation. Please, for America's children, do not squander the rest of the US Election. They are counting on you...

To the Canadians, unite behind Kris Titus and follow her to the ends of God's earth.

To those in the UK, get behind those who speak with fairness and balance and of new ways forward. Focus on the construction of a new vehicle, move forward - nobody gives a damn about the badge, or what you wear - it is the people underneath that matter.

To those who continue to stamp, twist and pervert the name, what worth is it? It will become a millstone around your necks within 6 months as it did before and it will reduce our legacy to a laughing stock in the press. Respect my original vision of a 3 year campaign with a beginning, middle and end. Be grateful it endured as it did.

Take the best of you, knit together the fabric of a new campaign and leave the worst of you to fester in their bitterness and anger.

I don't just have faith in you. My children do, and they thank you for starting something that will create a more powerful entity to complete the work F4J was unable to do.

So rise up, stand up, reach up and grasp the lightening rod of change. Join the men of change, the men of justice who work in that ministry and speak of integrity and fairness.

Stand together with them and you will be as strong as the foundations I tried to set down during my service.

And if I had a dying wish it would be to ensure that with every passing day, those that work in the Devil¹s Labyrinth that is the family justice system, are reminded what damage they do when they pervert the course of true justice.

Of that I pray, we would all agree.

Matt O'Connor

Founder, Fathers 4 Justice

The Scottish Sun - Stunts don't do fathers justice

2008-09-09T00:01:00.004+01:00

The Scottish Sun - Stunts don't do fathers justice

SELF-PUBLICISING muppet Matt O’Connor has disbanded the ridiculous Fathers4Justice.

Not before time, too. His stupid stunts did nothing to advance the cause of dads heartbroken by custody issues over their kids.

And the horrible incident that O’Connor claims forced his hand says everything about the need for someone serious to take up the baton on behalf of these poor guys.

Brian Philcox decided he would rather gas his kids in his Land Rover than not see them. I wrote at the time that I hope he rots in hell and that opinion stands.

That three-year-old boy and his seven-year-old sister played no part in their parents’ dispute. Yet they paid the ultimate price.

It would be wrong to suggest Fathers4Justice had anything to do with their deaths. But it did nothing to make dads like Philcox realise cries for help — from parading around on roofs in fancy dress to far, far worse — do nothing to ease their plight.

Yes, the law needs to ensure estranged dads aren’t just there to be cash machines and doormats.

But while we wait for that day, let’s remember we’re also not here to be martyrs.

Family Lore: F4J to carry on?

2008-09-08T08:00:00.001+01:00

Speculation that F4J is going to carry on

Email 3 from Tim to Matt over the closure of F4J

2008-09-08T02:14:00.000+01:00

Matt,

I am sorry you feel like that. I am sure you have been pissed off many times with many people. I don’t hold a grudge, I just had to tell you how I felt.

I liked you before I met you and meeting you the other week did not change my opinion of you.

I won’t mention it again – I just want to move on with the minimum of damage to our cause. Any ideas you have to move forward from this point would be welcomed and I hope that one pissed off email from me is not going to fuck that up or terminate our relationship.

Tim

Reply 2 from Matt to Tim over closure of F4J

2008-09-08T02:10:00.000+01:00

Tim, somebody else will be in contact with you from now on.

Good luck,

Matt

(Comment - At this point Matt is still going to the meeting in London)

The Sun - Killer Dad made me fold Fathers 4 Justice

2008-09-08T00:01:00.002+01:00

The Sun - Killer Dad made me fold Fathers 4 Justice

For a supposedly 'managed and well thought through' closure of F4J, this newspaper article was a disaster.

The comments attached to it are also horrendous.

I posted the 1st and last comments (purely a coincidence believe it or not) as HeartBrokenDad

Email 2 from Tim to Matt over closure of F4J

2008-09-07T23:40:00.000+01:00

Hi Matt,

I respect your decision, but it doesn’t mean I like it. When people like me joined F4J and paid our subscription for a year there was nothing on the website to suggest that F4J was not in this for the long haul and certainly nothing there to dissuade us from paying our £30 subscription or from buying merchandise either.

Clearly I would have put the little money I have to better use if I had known even a hint of what was going on.

I now have a banner which cost nearly £200 (which I was intending to use again), which is now useless because I was told the fathers-4-justice web address had to be on it, I have 2 tee-shirts which are also useless and a £30 subscription for something which is closed down at the drop of a hat. That pisses me off and I don’t expect I am the only one. I know you will understand where I am coming from here.

You say there is no going back. Do you really mean that?

If you had really planned this – then you would have talked to people first so that the transition would have minimised the infighting that has already started. That sort of bullshit is only damaging to the cause we are all fighting for and the most important thing (in my book) our credibility. I can already see any number of press releases next week all saying different things and just making us all look stupid and uncoordinated (which actually is true).

I accept the reality of what you have done, because I have no choice and yes I agree we need a meeting ASAP – I just wish we had had it BEFORE this broke.

Sorry if I seem frustrated, but that’s because I am. It just seems to me that after giving so selflessly for so long you are now being a little selfish and I have to say I don’t really understand why. Don’t take offence, because none is intended. Perhaps you can help me understand better when we meet next week.

Best regards,

Tim

Reply from Matt to Tim over closure of F4J

2008-09-07T18:13:00.000+01:00

Hi Tim,

I hear what you say but it was only ever meant to be a 3 year campaign but have made my (very carefully assessed) decision and hope you respect that because there is no debate about it and no going back.

My support is available for a new group with a new name and I have a few ideas and how you can get press out of this ‘from the ashes’ type story.

We need to sort a meeting out later this week with Coxy, Nick, Guy (if poss) and myself providing we all accept the reality.

If we don’t then obviously I wont be involved but wish you well all the same.

Thanks

Matt

4th Email to Mark - Re: New F4J

2008-09-07T17:02:00.000+01:00

Hi Mark,

Apparently he holds copyright over the name and the intellectual property rights.

I was trying to shame him into not throwing all his toys out of the pram and have told him that I don’t understand him giving to the cause selflessly over a number of years and then killing it in a way which I can only describe as selfish. I haven’t got anywhere – but at least I tried. Have also let him know that I am pissed off at paying £30 for a years membership, buying tee-shirts and merchandise and paying to get a banner made which I was told must have the web address on it and which I intended to use again – only for him to kill it.

I know you’re angry – that is obvious, so am I – I feel let down because I pinned my loyalty to something I thought was there for the long haul.

He probably didn’t support my stunt because he hadn’t thought of it. I had applied to be an activist when I joined and I got a reply back saying this:

Dear Sir

We do keep records of everyone who wishes to be an activist. We do not have any plans at the moment to do anything. We will keep your name on file in the meantime, thank you.

Kind regards

F4J Office

I just thought to myself WHAT THE ???????????? I thought this was a direct action group. So fuck em I’m doing it anyway. In any case I had support from F4J SW. Perhaps you giving him shit was why he was talking to me every hour on the phone. He did tell me on the Friday that he would come down on the Saturday, but he didn’t in the end..

With regards to stunts – I have some ideas, but I think some sort of co-ordinated large stunt to let people know we are very much still here and to act as a kind of re-launch would be a way to go. I have an idea I’d like to discuss that I think would make a decent impact and yet would result in few or no arrests, cause a fair amount of disruption, have the authorities running around like headless chickens, while at the same time being good fun too (a lot more interesting that sitting on a roof lol).

Mark – no one is in any doubt that this must continue, but I think we need to be more organised.

I think it was you who said to me a couple of months ago ‘nothing is coordinated in F4J’

IMO that’s nuts – we can be much more effective if we work together as a team and get a bit of excitement and momentum going again. 100’s even 1000’s at protests make people sit up and take note. It’s how we get back to those sort of numbers, but I the entire website, which if it’s not illegal would be simplicity to get back up and running.

Tim

3rd Reply from Mark - Re: New F4J

2008-09-07T15:48:00.001+01:00

Matt CANNOT kill the name off-what's he going to do, pass a law forbidding the term Fathers 4 Justice? Think about it...... Don't pander to his ego either as it makes him worse.

The very worst thing ANYONE can do-and I've known Matt for years-is to try and chase after him.

This is the THIRD time he's done this, not the second that's reported (2002, 2006 & now) if he sees it going on without him he'll soon be back-trust me on this one.

Are you planning another stunt? If so, you'll get 100% backing this time, none of this 'unofficial protest' shit. The day you were up on Thorpe's roof I fell out with him over his crap approach to what you were doing.

Mark

3rd Email to Mark - Re:New F4J

2008-09-07T15:25:00.000+01:00

I have been trying to persuade Matt not to kill the name and undo all the work done so far, but he is having none of it. I didn’t think I’d get anywhere, but thought it was worth a try. So I’m not sure how you’re going to keep the name going.

We absolutely agree on one thing though. It is essential we all pull in the same direction otherwise no one is going to listen to what we have to say.

Tim

2nd reply from Mark - Re:New F4J

2008-09-07T10:24:00.000+01:00

Well, you're in a minority of one, we're keeping the F4J name, style & format.

Everyone knows what it stands for and that took seven years to achieve.there is no point going back to square one.

Over the years it's been proven you can't please all of the people any of the time, so no point even trying.

Whatever is suggested, people always pull in opposite directions. (we shoukld do this, that, etc, etc, etc).

Real F4J crashed because they don't do anything and all pull in opposite directions-not because they used the F4J name. (also, the first thing they do is ask for £30).

If Matt comes back then so be it, business as usual, but if he don't then f**k him.

Mark

Email from Tim to Matt over closure of F4J

2008-09-07T08:12:00.000+01:00

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the chat today. As I have already said I completely understand your position and reasons for pulling out of F4J at the moment.

What I simply don’t understand is why you feel the need to pull the plug on it completely.

You have built a brand that is synonymous with the fight for fathers rights and you have passionately done more for the cause than probably any other single person. I know the brand is yours, I know it is a trademark etc etc, but why does it have to fold just because you need to take time out?

You say because you’d be hounded by the press etc

I don’t think so – Not if you handle it right (and you’re more than capable of doing that) You are already known (I think) more as being the founder of Fathers 4 Justice than anything else and this would obviously continue. If you were to let out a good press release next week, that you were standing down as leader because you are simply burnt out with the 6 year battle that you and your family have had to go through etc etc, you could actually make good press for F4J at the same time.

I think there are the skills here to keep the whole thing running. For instance I spent my last 3 years in the military as a webmaster and I am sure I could continue to keep the website up and running. The website is a great one and details the struggle very well. It is also a portal for merchandise, which of course includes your book. As far as someone to face the press instead of you, I have no ideas at the moment, but there must be the skills and willingness among the membership somewhere to keep things going.

No one is going to run off with your brand or damage it and as far as I am aware you would still own it in any case.

Even if the name goes here and you don’t allow us to continue using it, this thing (because of YOU!) has gone global. Our actions here in this country have inspired other continents to take up the fight and use the same brand to do so – Why would they want to reinvent the wheel?

Matt - this thing is your legacy, please don’t switch off the light as you walk out the door. Have something to come back to. I think I have some decent ideas and I’m sure you still have many buried in your head. Let others continue what you have started and save us the trouble of having to reinvent ourselves.

Please think about it. I think the next 18 months are the most critical since you started this. Labour are fucked and only interested in trying to save their political necks. If we can’t get anywhere with the next government BEFORE they get into power, this struggle will get nowhere IMO during their first term in office.

Reinventing ourselves is going to waste energy at a time when we cannot afford to waste any.

Please don’t make that necessary.

Best regards,

Tim

PS I spoke to Michael Cox tonight and he is up for the meeting on the 18^th. I am very grateful that you have honoured your pledge to be there too.

2nd Email to Mark Re: New F4J

2008-09-06T23:32:00.000+01:00

Hi Mark,

Its not a case of wanting in or out. I think you already know me well enough to know that I’m a fighter and that once I start a fight I don’t give up until it’s over. As losing this battle is not an option, I will keep fighting until it’s won.

I think what is important though, is that if F4J is dead then we must reinvent ourselves. A new name a new brand. I think if we just rehash the old one then we will not be taken seriously.

The last splinter group that reused the F4J name does not appear to have done anything meaningful.

I think the next 18 months – 2 years are critical. We have got nowhere with this government and neither will we now that they are all concentrating on fighting for their political survival. Labour is fucked and they deserve to be. We have got to be taken seriously by the next government BEFORE they are elected.

There are plenty of good people out there that are passionate about our cause and if we get organised and all pull in the same direction, together with the right strategy we could be very effective at making some real steps towards the change we are all after.

I’d love a chat tomorrow if you have the time.

Please let me know what your landline is.

Best regards,

Tim

Reply from Mark Re: New F4J

2008-09-06T22:11:00.000+01:00

Tim,

If you want in or out that's up to you mate, but Matt has f**ked everyone around for too long with his disbandonments.

I've know him since 2001 and this is the third f**king time he's put the boot in. Last time he went on national TV saying mothers are better parents than fathers. He denies saying it but I saw the t**t with my own eyes on there. The c**t.

He'll be back by xmas, no question about it, but this GOES ON with (preferably) or without him..

You should be aware that he had to be dragged kicking and screaming to support your job at Thorpe's.

Wait for Matt if you wish, but you'll probably die of old age in doing so,

Mark

Forum post - From Matt

2008-09-06T06:31:00.000+01:00

Hi Guys and Girls,

A huge thanks to everyone for their support and contributions over the last six-years. I have done six years service in Dads' Army and I'm afraid that I simply cannot cope with all the demands F4J requires from me when I have three young boys and other paying work commitments.

Six years of voluntary work has cost me a fxxking fortune and my 'public' reputation is actually very damaging and distracting from my paying work. I am sick of the number of times recently when business people have said 'Are you that guy from F4J?'

That was all great in the early days and maybe I should have used a stage name instead for the campaign!

The campaigning MUST continue and it is now down to you guys to step up to the plate and get on with it without me.

We need new blood, a new name and a new start - the problem is that if the name is used then I will continue to be drawn back into it by the media and that really is something I want to avoid.

I'll be supplying behind the scenes advice to a handful of people if they desperately need it and the help and support will continue as Nick Langford will continue to make an historic contribution. Hopefully him and Kip can sort something out.

I'd also suggest somebody starts organising (Tim Line/Jolly?) (Is this the same Tim Line? "A man who appeared from nowhere and was removed from the forum by the moderators for more underage shit-stirring than Gary Glitter at a Vietnamese children's home." ) and getting on with arranging a meeting to move forward.

I have tried to keep this low profile (Hmmm by talking to the Sun before he spoke to us?) and will make a few calls this weekend to help you all get the ball rolling and nail those fuckers in the family courts and government - this is unfinished business.

Go get em!

Matt

Email to Mark Harris Re: New F4J

2008-09-06T02:46:00.000+01:00

Hi Mark,

You know I have a great deal of respect for you, but, I think this is too much of a knee jerk reaction. Please wait a couple of days and see what the fallout is like first.

The one thing this movement needs is unity. F4J is already a shadow of its former self. The last splinter group has achieved little or nothing. This thing is just too big to just be stopped – it is global and it MUST continue. There are plenty of us with the passion to continue the fight.

I can understand and support the reasons behind Matt ceasing his involvement, but I strongly disagree with him unilaterally disbanding F4J when it affects so many people.

Whatever happens over the next couple of days – we MUST come out of this united, otherwise our effectiveness as an organisation will be damaged and any credibility we do have will be diluted.

A couple of days can’t hurt can it?

Best regards,

Tim

The Sun - Pressure group Fathers 4 Justice is to close

2008-09-06T00:01:00.001+01:00

PRESSURE group Fathers 4 Justice is to close because its founder has chosen to “put my family first."

The crusaders for dads’ rights, carried out a string of infamous stunts, dressing as superheroes or Santa Claus and scaling buildings and cranes.

Recently, members spent hours on the roof of Deputy Prime Minister Harriet Harman’s home.

But yesterday Matt O’Connor, who started the group in 2002, said the campaign had become “untenable”.

He said: “I’ve been privileged to work with truly heroic people. I’ve given six years of my life. But the day has come to put my family first.”

The group closed briefly in 2006 after allegations of a plot to kidnap PM Tony Blair’s son.

Forum Post - Matt's announcement that he's killing F4J

2008-09-05T13:27:00.001+01:00

Fathers 4 Justice To End Campaign

The founder of Fathers 4 Justice (F4J) announced today that the organisation would close this month for reasons which had made the future of the campaign untenable. (Struggling to see what make the future of the campaign untenable)

Matt O'Connor, who started the group in 2002, said that the campaign was planned to last three years but had continued because of the demand from desperate parents. He said it was the most profoundly difficult decision that he had ever made.

The organisation briefly closed in 2006 after allegations that there was a plot to kidnap the Prime Minister's son.

Initially the group were going to end their pastoral care services this month, but O'Connor has since said that after discussions with his children, assessing the current campaign situation and the continuing and impossible demands of juggling campaigning with his other commitments, the 'crusade for justice' could not continue.

Said O'Connor today, 'I have been privileged to work with some truly heroic people. I have volunteered six years of my life to this ministry, doing service and helping other dads, mums and grandparents. But the day has now come for me to put my family first.'

'I hope people will respect my decision to get back to being a father to my children and that other visionaries will emerge to create new groups and continue this historic ministry. We need new blood, new ideas and new vision.'

'I share with everyone, a deep sense of sadness, profound regret and frustration, that the change we have pursued, has been achingly slow to arrive. I want to get my life back away from the campaign and media spotlight.' (Is this it? 1 man needs time away so the whole campaign has to end???)

O'Connor has been working on a new commercial project with his eldest children and other members of his family. The F4J Forum will continue until August 2009 or until a transitional help service is provided. F4J will announce details of this shortly.

ENDS

Meeting with Matt O'Connor and Nick Langford

2008-08-14T02:00:00.000+01:00

Met Matt and Nick Langford for the first time in a coffee house in Winchester.

Matt wanted to check me out, hear my story, check I was who I said I was etc.

It was inspirational to meet him and although I was not a fan of his self-confessed dictatorial style of leadership, I thought that this was a man with his heart in the right place. We talked about what was going on now and his vision for the future of F4J.

Nick said very little, but I had already read Family Justice on Trial and had immediate respect for the time effort and detail that he had put into it.

We got kicked out the coffee house because it was closing, so went back to Matt's place. Everywhere there were momentoes of previous stunts and demonstrations and the place looked 'busy'.

We discussed my personal situation and both of them gave me advice on how to progress with regards my children.

On conclusion of our meeting Matt kindly offered me a copy of his book, 'Fathers 4 Justice - The inside story', which I asked him to sign.

The inscription read:

"To Tim,

You are a credit and an inspiration. I hope you find peace and reconciliation with your children and begin your lives again.

Best wishes

Matt O'Connor"

I went away from the meeting 'pumped up' and far more positive about the future than I had for a long time. I was glad that I had joined F4J and felt part of something that could not only improve my situation but the futures of lots of others too.

Response from Matt to Forum posting

2008-08-05T05:37:00.001+01:00

Re: C4 News - Michael Gove MP - Shadow Childrens Secretary - condemns lads mags

Fantastic comments Tim! Matt

Forum post of the letter I wrote to Michael Gove MP

2008-08-04T21:39:00.000+01:00

Letter I have just written to Michael Gove MP - Shadow Minister for Children

I made a post a little earlier about the Michel Gove piece on Channel 4 News tonight.

The more I thought about it - the more I realised that here is a guy who has just wasted a prime slot on a major news programme on an issue that is likely to have little or no relevance to his brief for children.

I have sent him the following email. I hope I'm not out of line here, but it needed to be said.

A GENUINE PLEA!

Dear Michael,

I am not one of your constituents, but I am a Conservative voter. I served in the army for 24 years and am now self-employed.

What prompted me to write was seeing you on Channel 4 News this evening.

I felt that as the Minister for Children, to be talking about something as trivial as lads mags on Prime Time TV was a massive wasted opportunity. I think that magazines of that type have an incredibly tiny effect on the family and ultimately family breakdown.

You mentioned in the report very briefly the damage a family breakdown has on children.

There are issues out there that are far more important and pressing than lads mags and are actually things that you CAN change when you undoubtedly win the next election.

Decreasing the amount of family breakdowns via political incentives are unlikely to have any immediate effect on the welfare of children, but there are things that you can begin to do now and strongly pledge to do before the next election that would help 1000's of children have a much better future.

Since this current government came to power over 100 children a week have been forcibly separated from one of their parents (usually the father) by our Family Law Courts.

This is a national tragedy. The Children's Act 1989 (although not perfect) should be legislation enough to ensure that fathers are able to play a fair and meaningful part of their children's lives after separation or divorce. But the our secretive Family Court system is ignoring the spirit of that Act.

I am a father who was separated from his wife back in June 2006. I have 3 daughters whom I love dearly, but since August 8th last year I have had no contact with them at all. My wife unilaterally stopped me from seeing them, presumably to spite me. It took me 4 months to get a hearing for a Contact order. CAFCASS interviewed my 3 girls without having any idea of the back ground or interviewing either my wife or myself. During the 4 months that I was unable to see them, I can only presume that my wife turned them against me, because the CAFCASS officer said that my eldest did not want to see me. She passed on her findings to the judge and he said that based on their ages 14,13 and 11 he would not be making an order for contact. He generously allowed

me to "write to them once a month and send small gifts at appropriate times", and further instructed my wife to encourage them to respond to my letters. She told the judge "Oh Yes of course I will". Since that day I have written to them almost every month and sent gifts for Xmas and their birthdays. I have not had a single reply!

I am pleading with you as a father yourself and as Shadow Minister for Children to look into the gross injustices that are being dished out to fathers and their children everyday.

Because of the complete lack of regard to my children and my wish to be a father to them, I have recently joined the pressure group Fathers-4- Justice. Since joining I have quickly come to realise that I have little or no hope of ever getting to see my girls again through the Family Courts. Some members have been fighting for years and have got nowhere. Some have cost the hard hit taxpayer millions of £'s in Legal Aid fees and still got nowhere. What hope then have I, when I do not qualify for legal aid and cannot afford to go back to court time and time again?

Members of this governments cabinet have been approached by Fathers-4-Justice for dialogue, but have had their requests refused.

I ask you as a father to please just sit still for a minute or 2 and try to imagine life without your daughter Beatrice. Unable to see her, or speak to her for an indeterminate period of time……. Believe me – take it from someone who knows – it is heart breaking.

As Shadow Minister for Children, please, please, please, just listen to what we have to say. We are not nutters or crackpots – just fathers who have suffered or are suffering grave injustices from our Family Courts.

You are in a position to listen to us and to have a positive effect that will transform 1000's of children's lives every year.

Yours Sincerely,

A heart broken father of 3 wonderful girls

Tim Line

Post I made on Forum about C4 News

2008-08-04T20:19:00.004+01:00

C4 News - Michael Gove MP - Shadow Childrens Secretary - condemns lads mags

Rather than criticising Men’s magazines for making fathers irresponsible, he could put his efforts elsewhere and help fathers and their children in a much more practical way by questioning and criticising this countries appalling record of supporting fathers in the courts.

I think this guy needs to wake up to what is really going on around him.

You can watch it here:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1529573111/bclid1704126470/bctid1711801741

Fathers 4 Justice back Dads fight

2008-07-24T10:59:00.001+01:00

Fathers 4 Justice back Dads fight

Campaign group Fathers4Justice is to take up the cudgels on behalf of former Devizes man Tim Line, who has been barred from seeing his three daughters for a year.

Former soldier and international rally driver Mr Line has been separated from his wife of 18 years since June 2006 but last year a court denied him access to his daughters after they told a judge they no longer wanted to see him.

Mr Line, a former sergeant in the Royal Artillery who now lives in Hilperton, near Trowbridge, said all his efforts through the courts had done nothing but earn fees for solicitors.

He said: "It is horrendous to be on your own in the house. No noise. No children playing. It is like a living bereavement."

In May 2006 Mr Line came home from a trip away to be handed a summons to appear in court two days later.

He said: "Our marriage had not been going well but this came right out of the blue.

"My wife's solicitor told me, if I were you, Mr Line, I'd find a place to live in the next few days. I had a molestation order served on me, even though I had never been violent towards my wife or my children."

Mr Line found himself homeless, but worse was to come. He had been given access to his children aged 14, 13 and 11, who still live in the family home.

But the access gradually tailed off and a judge told him last August that his rights had been revoked after the girls said they no longer wanted to visit.

Mr Line said: "The judge said I could write to them and send them small gifts at the appropriate times of year."

He hasn't seen his two younger daughters since. He saw his eldest daughter briefly last Christmas, when he dropped off their presents.

He said: "We hugged and that is the last time I saw her. But since joining Fathers4 Justice I see I have been relatively lucky. Other fathers, like Mark Harris, who went to prison for ten months for waving to his children in the street, are much worse off.

"The law must be changed. Over 300,000 children are stopped from seeing one of their parents, usually the father. Only five per cent of fathers are allowed to see their children every day.

"But solicitors don't want things changed, because they make so much money out of it. They charge £185 an hour and each letter they receive or phone call they deal with costs you £18.50."

Fathers4Justice confirmed it would hold a protest in support of Mr Line, but would not say where and when it would take place.

Fathers4Justice South West co-ordinator Richard Adams said: "Tim Line served Queen and country in the Army for 24 years but as soon as his marriage broke down, this Government's family courts denied him access to his children."

"COMMENT"

2008-07-18T21:30:00.000+01:00

I purchased 4 books I thought might be useful:

Fathers Matter: A Guide to Contact on Separation and Divorce by Celia Conrad - £18.50

The Custody Minefield: Parental Separation, Your Rights and the Law by Michael Robinson - £8.99
I Want to See My Kids! by Tina Rayburn - £7.14

Family Court HELL by Mark Harris - £8.54

Email from Mark to Tim Re: Support for Harriet Harman trial.

2008-07-18T19:57:00.000+01:00

Hi Again,

Nah, nothing in F4J is co ordinated! You just get an idea, spread the word and go with fingers crossed!

Be a waste of time coming up on the 23rd, we're only entering pleas, any forthcoming trial might be better to come to,

Mark

Email to Mark Harris offering support for Harriet Harman court case

2008-07-18T18:32:00.000+01:00

Hi again Mark,

I’d like to show my support for you and Jolly by coming up to London on 23^rd.

Is support like this co-ordinated? Do you share cars etc?

Tim

Some suggestions

2008-07-18T07:53:00.000+01:00

Hello Mate,

Don't know what part of the Country you are in, but if your kids are in Seend, are you near there too?

There's a meeting taking place in Bristol on Mon 28 June if you fancy doing something.

One thought that came to my mind which would put you in the very front of your kids minds would be to do a protest on the roof of Judge Thorpe's gaff in Seend. Quite high up, but a good ladder would get you up and you could take your time doing it. Might be able to find another one or two to join you.

Have a couple of banners with messages to your kids, add something about Thorpe's courts not helping you or them.

Need to be up all day/into the evening or more if you can, best go on a Friday as he'll be coming home from the RCJ to it and weekend papers are usually looking for stories,

Mark

Bristol F4J Meeting

2008-07-17T18:44:00.000+01:00

Was invited to an F4J meeting on 28th July in Bristol by Rich.

Re: Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next

2008-07-17T18:05:00.000+01:00

Hi Mark,

Thanks so much for your reply. I continued to read about your case last night and I am simply stunned.

I am sorry that I initially came to the conclusion that I did.

In the beginning, after my split I had a degree of faith in the justice system, that they would do what was fair and right. I like yourself and thousands of others have found out that the opposite is the case. Reading everything that I have in the last few days has given me very little in the way of hope, but has at the same time shown me that something has to be done to change this unjust system.

I am heartened that your actions worked positively for your girls and especially that you and F4J are now actively supported by Lisa now.

As you are the countries undoubted expert after all you have been through, you obviously know what works and what doesn’t. What would you suggest my next step/s should be?

I am more than happy to meet face to face, if you have the time and it would make things easier.

Best regards,

Tim Line

Re: Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next

2008-07-17T18:02:00.000+01:00

Hi,

Seen your e mail that was forwarded by Richard Adams.

Just writing to let you know that you are quite wrong re my F4J activity not helping me see my kids unitl they were 16.

Throughout my years of protest over not seeing my kids, because I made the news on a regular basis, locally and nationally, each kid retained the knowledge that I wanted to see them, loved them and was fighting for them.

Of course, I still dragged the ex to court on every single occasion, (133 times to be precise) just to keep that knowledge firmily in their minds too.

My youngest was 11 when she ran away with the 16 year old.

If you do nothing other than piss about with CAFCASS, MacKenzie friends, waiting for Judges to take your ex on for you, then the months and years of not seeing your kids that follow will turn into children that think you no longer care, are n't bothered about them and they get alienated. Then you are fucked.

You won't get any form of justice in a family court, they won't enforce jack shit upon your ex., no matter how good a case you might have, so don';t go there with any false illusions.

If you are genuine about becoming an activist, best get stuck in asap WHILE you go through the nonsense of the family courts. And of course, if you are up to protest, the ex will not be able to avoid talking about your antics in front of the kids, which helps keep your love for them fresh in their minds each day.

Mark Harris.

RE: Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next

2008-07-17T07:01:00.000+01:00

Hi Rich,

Thanks so much for your reply. I have just spent several hours reading Mark Harris blog. I agree there are certainly similarities. I was also stunned to read about the protest that happened in the village of Seend which is where my wife and girls live in my former house. This was right after the point that my wife refused to let me see the girls and just before my application for an order.

I wish I had been involved with F4J back then.

I have been a member for 2 days and yet already I am getting the impression that alone I do not have much hope of getting anywhere with regards to seeing my kids. Nothing that Mark Harris did (although I greatly admire him for it) helped him to see his girls until one of them had turned 16.

I am prepared to become an activist, become involved in direct action etc, but am new to this and would like some sensible advice on what my next step should be.

For instance, my court fee for my application for an order is still active and the judge told me I could come back once I have 'had time to reflect', whatever that means. Quite how things are supposed to improve though when I am unable to communicate with them - I don't know.

Should I go back and try? And if so, do it with McKensie friend?

I am not a quitter, I was in the military for 24 years, I am self-employed now and I will not give up fighting to see them. I just want to channel my energies in the most effective way.

Thanks for giving me your phone number. With your permission, I'd like to give you and Jason a call on Friday evening.

Best regards,

Tim Line

Re: Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next

2008-07-16T19:49:00.000+01:00

(This was a reply that I got to my 1st forum post, sent as an email off forum.)

Tim your case sounds so much like Mark Harris's case which if you do not know about can be read at -

http://www.f4jmarkharris.blogspot.com/

He will probably tell you that the best way of dealing with this is to get on a roof with a banner telling your daughters how much you love them and never give up hope. Your ex certainly seems to be turning your daughters against you

If you need help with direct action there is the infamous Jason Hatch who lives near Trowbridge. His number is ************ and he has always got spare banners including the ones from Buck House.

Good luck
Rich
F4J South West Coordinator
**********

"COMMENT"

2008-07-15T21:52:00.000+01:00

This response surprised me somewhat as I had previously thought of F4J as an active pressure group. However, I thought maybe there is a good reason and had plenty of other things to keep me busy like reading the excellent documents that you get access to after becoming a member.

RE: I wish to get actively involved

2008-07-15T21:51:00.000+01:00

Dear Sir

We do keep records of everyone who wishes to be an activist. We do not have any plans at the moment to do anything. We will keep your name on file in the meantime, thank you.

Kidn regards
F4J Office

RE: I wish to get actively involved

2008-07-15T16:44:00.000+01:00

Maybe you misunderstand me? I am interested in becoming an activist. The website said I needed to apply, as you now sensibly vet everyone.

Tim

Re: I wish to get actively involved

2008-07-15T14:44:00.000+01:00

Dear Sir

Thank you for your email and interest in working with the F4J Team. We don't have any vacancies at the moment but we will keep your enquiry on file.

Kind regards
F4J Office

Application to become an activist.

2008-07-15T10:23:00.000+01:00

Eager to DO something I sent this email:

Hi,

I would like to be considered for taking an active part in F4J. I have just rejoined and am a fully paid up supporter.

I have been separated from my wife for over 2 years now since being forced to leave my family home by the courts.

Very briefly, initially I was allowed to see my 3 daughters every other weekend and ½ the holidays. In practice the EOW worked but holidays did not. Eventually, my wife stopped me from seeing them completely. I have applied for a contact order, but CAFCASS after interviewing my girls told the court they didn’t want to see me.

I have not seen 2 of my daughters since 8th Aug last year and the other one I have only seen very briefly on the doorstep of my former home when I delivered her Birthday presents.

I have had no replies to any of my letters.

I feel incredibly frustrated and let down and just want to feel as though I am doing something positive to help both my own situation and others.

I live in Trowbridge, Wiltshire and would be more than happy to meet the F4J Team.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Tim Line

PS – My contact details ect are as follows:

Tim Line
*********
*********
Trowbridge
Wilts

My 1st Forum post - Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next.

2008-07-15T09:02:00.000+01:00

Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next.

On 8th August it will be a year since I last saw 2 of my 3 daughters
and I have only very briefly seen my other one on her birthday on the
doorstep of my former home.

I was forced out of my family home by the courts way back in June 2006.
I was initially allowed to see my girls every other weekend and 1/2
the holidays. I felt this was unfair and wanted to see them for 1
evening a week mid week, but this was denied me. The EOW worked OK,
but the holidays were another matter.

There was no communication between my wife and I directly because
there was simply no reasoning with her. I attempted to sort out
arrangements via my solicitor, but this proved to be impossible,
because we rarely ever got a reply. I don't want to go into too much
detail here, but despite me only wanting to see my girls for a fair
share of the holidays and even offering my wife the choice of dates as
long as I had a bit of notice, every holiday was ruined.

The 1st Xmas all my attempts were futile and out of desperation, I
telephoned her and tried to reason with her. She suddenly started
shouting down the phone (so the girls could hear) "You're threatening
not to bring them back are you??" I was of course saying "No, of
course not etc etc". She continued to shout sentences of similar
meaning and I ended up ending the call. I contacted my solicitor who
tried every way possible to speak to hers, to no avail. They sent a
letter, phoned the practice numerous times and were promised a call
back, left messages on his answerphone etc but nothing. Then 4
minutes before he left his office for his Xmas holiday with his family
he sent a fax which basically said that due to my threats to keep the
children, his client was only prepared to let them see me for 3 days,
the 27-29th Dec.

Although that was the worst case - every holiday after that, something
would be agreed and she would break it.

Then last summer in an attempt to keep the escalating costs down I
asked my eldest (14) to ask her mum when I could have them for the
summer holidays. The next time I saw them, they didn't have an answer
so I asked her to ask again. Despite asking many times for a bit of
notice (I am self employed) 3 days before the holiday started I got a
letter from her solicitor saying that I could have them for 2 weeks
starting the 1st day of the holidays.

This was simply impossible because I was committed work wise by then,
so I replied saying this and suggesting that I had them for 17 days
starting a week later. We got no reply. The girls came to me on the
day I had suggested but I still had no idea if the 17 days had been
agreed. When I asked the girls when they though they were going back,
they just said "Mum said her solicitor has written to you" and were
obviously under instructions to say nothing else. My solicitor tried
chasing up the matter, but as usual met with the usual lack of
communication. Eventually several days later my solicitor came back
to me with the answer that my wife would not agree to 17 days and that
I could only have them for 14. I left it at that and made a number of
plans to take them out on various trips. On the evening of 8th Aug, I
told them what we were going to do the following day (trip to London)
and my eldest said "we're not getting back too late are we?". I said
"It will probably be quite late. Why?"

She then told me that they were going back to their mum the next evening.

I had had them for 6 days.

My girls had never ever to my knowledge ever told lies to either me or
their mother, but it was obvious that they had all known exactly what
day they were going back, but had been told not to tell me. I then
found out she was taking them to Denmark for 4 weeks 3 days later.
I was distraught, it got very tearful and I ended up saying that they
might as well go back to her that night. They rang their mum and
within a few minutes she had picked them up.

I did not know when they got back and attempts to contact them failed.
Eventually I phoned their school to see if they were back at school
and found that they were. I kept trying to phone my daughters and
eventually got hold of one of them. The previous weekend they should
have been with me, so I asked my daughter if they wanted to see me and
she said yes. So I made arrangement to pick them up as usual the
coming weekend.

A few minutes later, my wife phoned me and simply said - You're not
seeing the girls. Simple as that. I asked her why and she just kept
repeating that I wasn't seeing them. Eventually she said she wasn't
having me upset them like last time.

I then contacted my solicitor and she started an application for an
order for contact.

This hearing was in Trowbridge and it wasn't until we were in front of
the judge, that the judge said he couldn't hear the case because he
either knew or his children knew my children. We had already been
waiting several hours and I could just see this as another frustrating
and costly exercise, so taking advice, I allowed the hearing to continue.

The judge said that he had been trying to streamline the usual system
and said that the hearing would take place in Bath and that the girls
would come to court the same day, so that CAFCASS could interview them
and it could all get sorted out on the same day.

This seemed like a good idea as things were already dragging on and I
hadn't seen the girls for 4 months or had any contact with them
whatsoever.

The judge explained that there were a number of procedures that had to
be followed and one of them was that the girls were to be taken to
court separately, by a mutual friend and that they would have no
contact with either of us until after the hearing.

However - what was not made clear was that the hearing in Bath was
just a hearing to set a date for all this to happen. I only found
this out the day before when my solicitor told me. I was baffled and
couldn't understand why. It seemed crazy. She tried to contact my
wife's solicitor to see what his understanding was of what was
happening, but as usual we got no reply.

We turned up in court to find that my wife and her solicitor had come
to the same conclusion as me, and that they thought the process was
going to happen that day too.

We went in to see the judge and incredibly it was the same judge as we
had had in Trowbridge. He apologised for the confusion, but said that
as the girls were there anyway, he would see if CAFCASS were able to
speak to them. It then came to light that my wife had ignored what
the judge had said and had travelled to court in the same car as them
with the mutual friend. The excuse was that 'She didn't want to drive
in Bath on her own'.

Despite this being one of the rules the same judge had told us, he
just accepted the excuse and continued.

The children were interviewed by the CAFCASS officer both individually
and together, but neither me or my wife were given the opportunity to
speak her before this happened. Quite how someone is supposed to be
able to make judgments purely based on what the children say without
getting the background I don't know.

The next thing that happened was the CAFCASS officer got my wife and
me and our solicitors in the same room and told us her findings.

This was extremely distressing. She reported that my 14 yr old didn't
want to see me at all, that my 13 yr old would just do what the 14yr
old did and my youngest (11yr old) didn't have much to say. She then
told me why. All the reasons they had given had obviously come from
their mother. I tried to argue with the CAFCASS woman but every time
she answered in her sweetest voice "Well that's their perception Mr
Line". She seemed to take no consideration of the fact that they had
been solely in their mothers care for 4 months and that I had not even
been able to speak to them in that time.

We then went back in front of the judge and based on the CAFCASS
testimony, he said the girls were old enough to make up their own
minds and said he would not be making an order for contact, but that I
was 'allowed to write to them and send them small gifts at appropriate
times'. I was also advised to keep the letters short as children had
short attention spans!!!!! My girls are all very intelligent and
devour huge novels at an incredible rate.

The judge then addressed my wife and said "I assume that you want the
children to have future contact with their father?", She replied, Yes
of course. He further instructed her to encourage the children to
reply to my letters, to which she replied "Oh yes of course I will".

Since November last year, I have delivered Xmas presents, Birthday
presents and written almost every month. With the exception of my
middle daughter agreeing (by text) to let me deliver her presents face
to face and her thanking me by text for them, I and absolutely no
communication from the other 2 at all with the exception of a very
hateful text message from my eldest on the same day that my wifes
application for costs was denied.

Is there anyone out there that has been in the same situation and can
offer some good advice?

Everyone I speak to who know me and the girls just say "Don't worry,
they will realise what is going on one day and they'll always love you"

But these years are special and you can't get time back - once its
gone its gone. I am desperate to see them again - I just don't see how.

Judge back in November said that the fee I paid for the order is still
there so I can try again in the future, once "I have had time to
reflect" - but how? and what good will it do?

All I feel is grief and anger towards my wife and the system that
allows this to happen.

Sorry if this all seems a bit disjointed, but so much has happened, I
cannot possibly write it all here.

I have spent a small fortune on solicitors and have got the message
loud and clear that I should have done this on my own. I feel I am
losing the fight and I just need some help to take the next step.

Tim Line

The day I joined Fathers 4 Justice

2008-07-14T20:30:00.000+01:00

It was nearly a year since I had last seen my 3 girls. I had got nowhere since the day my wife suddenly announced that I could no longer see them. An attempt to get a Contact Order had resulted in the judge generously allowing me to write once a month and to send small gifts at appropriate times. He said that any contact was meaningful contact. I am not sure how this can be, when I have not had one reply to any of my letters.

I felt helpless, depressed, heartbroken and was beginning to feel a complete failure. I looked for a vehicle that could help and after looking at various organisations I decided to join Fathers 4 Justice.

I had looked at F4J back in May 2006, but there seemed to be a fair amount of controversy surrounding the group and it had recently been shut down by it's founder, Matt O'Connor because of an apparent plot to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo.

But now their website looked professional, their presentation was good, they offered some helpful looking documents and access to their forum as well as being a group actively involved in direct action and campaigning to get our outrageous laws changed. I thought the £30 joining fee would be a small price to pay if they could help me see my kids again.

I'm off too...

2008-05-27T21:48:00.000+01:00

From: Michael
Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 21:48:40 +0100
To:
Subject: I'm off too...

I just finish reading the words of Graham Manson who I
deeply trust, respect and appreciate as honest and
upstanding friend.

Over the last six months I have heard these sentiments
expressed by many of my friends and I too share the feeling
that all is not well. Having no regrets or misgivings about my
involvement in the group I would have carried out my tasks as
required of me many times over. However, enough is enough
and I am no longer prepared to stand idol while members of
this group mismanage the group or funds in whichever order.
I can live without my children as painful as it is but not prepared
to lose my dignity or my standards and morality, I therefore
follow Graham Manson by departing from F4J.

Michael Sadeh

Re: I wasn't pushed - I jumped!

2005-05-28T13:55:00.001+01:00

From: Dave Chick
Reply-To:
Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 13:55:28 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Re: Re: I WASN'T PUSHED - I JUMPED!

Mr O'connor

You use, abuse, and ignore countless decent people who have made f4j
what it is (although you really are losing the plot of late). Your
slagging off of Graham Manson, particularly the bit about him not
having any children of his own, shows you to be a very
sick man as well as the above mentioned. You did good early
days but now you are just a liability causing more damage than
good, its time for you to hand the reigns over to someone who
can remain focused on the job in hand, rather than you
drag the whole fathers / children‚s rights movement back to
where it was before f4j began. Where is all the money going?
how much of it have you wasted on alcohol and other
things for yourself? What did you do with the thousands I gave to
f4j and what did you do with the 5 figure donation in 2003. On
top of that you showed up at the last day of my trial pissed -
do the right thing, better late than never and move aside.

Dave Chick

Re: I wasn't pushed - I jumped

2005-05-28T01:11:00.000+01:00

From: PETER MOLLOY
Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 01:11:51 +0100
Subject: RE: I WASN'T PUSHED - I JUMPED!

Graham,

I'm glad that you have been able to see the light at long last
mate,

When I was advocating what you have said below and a lot
more in the middle of last year F4J members just rubbished
me saying it was `sour grapes' and I was full of shit. I
am still waiting for these scumbags to say it to my face and
they will have the opportunity again on the 17th, but they
won't cos they know I was right. Those who said that are only
in it for themselves or too busy getting stoned on F4J demos
and it being swept under the carpet. Those dead beat dads
amongst us are a liability to our cause & to every decent parent
and grandparent who at one time believed F4J was a good thing.
Not only as the egotistics and drug addicts of the Fascists, sorry,
Fathers 4 Justice let the respectable members of the organization
down they have also let our children down.

F4J could have brought about something really good but not for
certain personalities, whom I don't have to mention, it as
failed. Well done you pricks and shame on you. Tick tock tick
tock time is running out Matt & co.

I'm off to America tomorrow for a nice little holiday and to
spread the word about the real F4J and to pass the word round not to
send money to Matt or F4J because nobody knows where it goes.
Remember in April 2003 at the meeting in Bristol when Matt told
us that the organization had received a `5 figure donation'
well that was not declared through companies house and not on
F4J's accounts. What are you doing with the money Matt?

How is your own company doing!

Matt is a liability folks and can't be trusted and at long last
people are starting to see through him. We can't have a dead
beat dad in charge of this organization and it is up to you, the
members to do something about it. If I was you I would hit Matt
where it hurts and that's his pocket and cancel your membership
but remain a supporter of the aims of F4J. The arsehole won't
even get on a roof himself but instead wants ordinary members
to do it and when they go to prison just fucks them off. Come
`ed folks wake up to him and stop being used.

To the tune of `London Bridge is falling down' : `F4J is
falling down falling down falling down. F4J is falling down poor
old Matty'.

Take care and see you on the 17th.

Pete

PS Has anyone seen some ladies £500!

Re: I'm off too...

2005-05-27T23:39:00.001+01:00

From: Michael
Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 23:39:00 +0100
To:
Subject: Re: I'm off too...

Guy,

Thanks for replying so quickly. The argument you bring
forward with regards to Matt's talent and contribution is
without a doubt true. Only a fool would argue that F4J
would have got as far as it has without Matt.

Nevertheless we are dealing with people's life and that of
their children and their aspirations. We are very close to
the Promised Land. We came a long way and contributing
it solely to Matt as if he is God is in my view a mistake. Many
people, good people put much effort to this assent including
you and the brave act you committed. It wasn't one man, it
was our willingness to do his bidding without questioning,
without thinking about ourselves and consequences of our
actions first. There are many good men in this organisation
who had laboured behind the scene, risking their livelihood
and freedom as we witness recently and had little credit for
their endeavours, little rewards and little in return when you
considering the fact that some individuals in the top F4J had
never done more then risking their launch appointments.

Further, it is not accepted that other individuals are caught with
their hands in the till, and Matt is trying to silence those of had
the decency and courage to bring this mater to the attention of
the group. In addition, he smears them with allegations that
they are `working for the enemy, the press'. If Chris
Hawkins does work for the press, at least he doses his job properly
by exposing corruption and wrong doings sussesfully.

History teaches us that leaders who cannot be questioned or
challenged do commit mistakes and worse, start believing in
their own immortality. Well, sadly none of us is irreplaceable
including me, you and Matt.

I will have no part in what I consider to be wrong or worse
corruption and bullyboy tactics.

Take care and I hope you get to see your kids soon as I wish
it for the rest of us too.

Michael

I wasn't pushed - I jumped

2005-05-27T20:55:00.000+01:00

From: Graham
Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 20:55:38 +0100
To: Matthew O'Connor
Subject: I WASN'T PUSHED - I JUMPED!

Dear All

I don't take kindly to people telling lies about me so this is my
response to Matt O'Connor's e-mail posted earlier.

We've come a long way in this campaign - too long to let it
be destroyed by a corrupt dishonest despot and his sidekick.

For the record I wasn't kicked out of Fathers4Justice today, I
left yesterday the moment I learned Jeff Skinner and Chris Hawkins
had been expelled for whistle-blowing the shameful behaviour
of Jason Hatch. Behaviour that our leader hoped he could brush
under the carpet. Those of you know them, know Chris and
Jeff to be dedicated activists of the utmost integrity and will
not be convinced by the vile accusations of Mr.O'Connor.

We've heard these type of accusations before - it's all starting
to sound too familiar now.

The last time I read lies about myself was in the family court.
I never expected to read them in F4J. Far from being 'dismissed'
- a drunken Matt O'Connor begged me to stay this morning and
I told him where to go. This only confirms to me I've done the
right thing. It also casts doubt on everything this man has ever
told me regarding the ambiguous expulsion of so many of our
numbers, people who gave their time and energy to changing
the law in this country, not motivated by greed and
self-glorification but by the genuine belief that what they were
doing was right. Our motto is 'Truth, Justice and Equality in
family law and it's about time we extended that to include
Fathers4Justice itself.

No-one has been prouder than I to be part of this organisation.
It gave me a reason to live when my reason for living was taken
away. I will always be grateful for that. Nevertheless, I will no
longer tolerate the bullshit, double-standards, hypocrisy and
mis-management which has become a way of life for our so-
called 'management team'. Our members get enough of that
in the family courts - they certainly don't expect it from us.

Chris Hawkins and Jeff Skinner - my hat is off to you both.
Thankyou for having the courage of your convictions, and
whether or not you're both undercover journalists working
for Granada, I'm glad you had the balls to speak out.

Jenny Bostock - unlike the rest of us, your hands are tied. I
will miss you, Jenny.

Matt O'Connor - don't you dare threaten me with civil, criminal
or any other type of action - Have some dignity and walk away
from me like I am walking away from you. Shame on you.

Graham Manson.