Forum post - From Matt

Hi Guys and Girls,

A huge thanks to everyone for their support and contributions over the last six-years. I have done six years service in Dads' Army and I'm afraid that I simply cannot cope with all the demands F4J requires from me when I have three young boys and other paying work commitments.

Six years of voluntary work has cost me a fxxking fortune and my 'public' reputation is actually very damaging and distracting from my paying work. I am sick of the number of times recently when business people have said 'Are you that guy from F4J?'

That was all great in the early days and maybe I should have used a stage name instead for the campaign!

The campaigning MUST continue and it is now down to you guys to step up to the plate and get on with it without me.

We need new blood, a new name and a new start - the problem is that if the name is used then I will continue to be drawn back into it by the media and that really is something I want to avoid.

I'll be supplying behind the scenes advice to a handful of people if they desperately need it and the help and support will continue as Nick Langford will continue to make an historic contribution. Hopefully him and Kip can sort something out.

I'd also suggest somebody starts organising (Tim Line/Jolly?) (Is this the same Tim Line?  "A man who appeared from nowhere and was removed from the forum by the moderators for more underage shit-stirring than Gary Glitter at a Vietnamese children's home." ) and getting on with arranging a meeting to move forward.

I have tried to keep this low profile (Hmmm by talking to the Sun before he spoke to us?) and will make a few calls this weekend to help you all get the ball rolling and nail those fuckers in the family courts and government - this is unfinished business.

Go get em!

Matt

Email to Mark Harris Re: New F4J

Hi Mark, 

You know I have a great deal of respect for you, but, I think this is too much of a knee jerk reaction.  Please wait a couple of days and see what the fallout is like first. 

The one thing this movement needs is unity.  F4J is already a shadow of its former self.  The last splinter group has achieved little or nothing.  This thing is just too big to just be stopped – it is global and it MUST continue.  There are plenty of us with the passion to continue the fight. 

I can understand and support the reasons behind Matt ceasing his involvement, but I strongly disagree with him unilaterally disbanding F4J when it affects so many people. 

Whatever happens over the next couple of days – we MUST come out of this united, otherwise our effectiveness as an organisation will be damaged and any credibility we do have will be diluted. 

A couple of days can’t hurt can it? 

Best regards, 

Tim

The Sun - Pressure group Fathers 4 Justice is to close

PRESSURE group Fathers 4 Justice is to close because its founder has chosen to “put my family first."

The crusaders for dads’ rights, carried out a string of infamous stunts, dressing as superheroes or Santa Claus and scaling buildings and cranes.

Recently, members spent hours on the roof of Deputy Prime Minister Harriet Harman’s home.

But yesterday Matt O’Connor, who started the group in 2002, said the campaign had become “untenable”.

He said: “I’ve been privileged to work with truly heroic people. I’ve given six years of my life. But the day has come to put my family first.”

The group closed briefly in 2006 after allegations of a plot to kidnap PM Tony Blair’s son.

Forum Post - Matt's announcement that he's killing F4J

Fathers 4 Justice To End Campaign 

The founder of Fathers 4 Justice (F4J) announced today that the organisation would close this month for reasons which had made the future of the campaign untenable.  (Struggling to see what make the future of the campaign untenable)

Matt O'Connor, who started the group in 2002, said that the campaign was planned to last three years but had continued because of the demand from desperate parents. He said it was the most profoundly difficult decision that he had ever made. 

The organisation briefly closed in 2006 after allegations that there was a plot to kidnap the Prime Minister's son. 

Initially the group were going to end their pastoral care services this month, but O'Connor has since said that after discussions with his children, assessing the current campaign situation and the continuing and impossible demands of juggling campaigning with his other commitments, the 'crusade for justice' could not continue. 

Said O'Connor today, 'I have been privileged to work with some truly heroic people. I have volunteered six years of my life to this ministry, doing service and helping other dads, mums and grandparents. But the day has now come for me to put my family first.'

'I hope people will respect my decision to get back to being a father to my children and that other visionaries will emerge to create new groups and continue this historic ministry. We need new blood, new ideas and new vision.'

'I share with everyone, a deep sense of sadness, profound regret and frustration, that the change we have pursued, has been achingly slow to arrive. I want to get my life back away from the campaign and media spotlight.' (Is this it? 1 man needs time away so the whole campaign has to end???)

O'Connor has been working on a new commercial project with his eldest children and other members of his family. The F4J Forum will continue until August 2009 or until a transitional help service is provided. F4J will announce details of this shortly. 

ENDS 

Meeting with Matt O'Connor and Nick Langford

Met Matt and Nick Langford for the first time in a coffee house in Winchester.

Matt wanted to check me out, hear my story, check I was who I said I was etc.

It was inspirational to meet him and although I was not a fan of his self-confessed dictatorial style of leadership, I thought that this was a man with his heart in the right place.  We talked about what was going on now and his vision for the future of F4J.

Nick said very little, but I had already read Family Justice on Trial and had immediate respect for the time effort and detail that he had put into it.

We got kicked out the coffee house because it was closing, so went back to Matt's place.  Everywhere there were momentoes of previous stunts and demonstrations and the place looked 'busy'.

We discussed my personal situation and both of them gave me advice on how to progress with regards my children.

On conclusion of our meeting Matt kindly offered me a copy of his book,  'Fathers 4 Justice - The inside story', which I asked him to sign.

The inscription read:

"To Tim,  

You are a credit and an inspiration. I hope you find peace and reconciliation with your children and begin your lives again.

Best wishes

Matt O'Connor"

I went away from the meeting 'pumped up' and far more positive about the future than I had for a long time.  I was glad that I had joined F4J and felt part of something that could not only improve my situation but the futures of lots of others too.

Response from Matt to Forum posting

Re: C4 News - Michael Gove MP - Shadow Childrens Secretary - condemns lads mags

Fantastic comments Tim! Matt

Forum post of the letter I wrote to Michael Gove MP

Letter I have just written to Michael Gove MP - Shadow Minister for Children

I made a post a little earlier about the Michel Gove piece on Channel 4 News tonight.

The more I thought about it - the more I realised that here is a guy who has just wasted a prime slot on a major news programme on an issue that is likely to have little or no relevance to his brief for children.

I have sent him the following email.  I hope I'm not out of line here, but it needed to be said.

A GENUINE PLEA!

Dear Michael,

I am not one of your constituents, but I am a Conservative voter.  I served in the army for 24 years and am now self-employed.

What prompted me to write was seeing you on Channel 4 News this evening.

I felt that as the Minister for Children, to be talking about something as trivial as lads mags on Prime Time TV was a massive wasted opportunity.  I think that magazines of that type have an incredibly tiny effect on the family and ultimately family breakdown.

You mentioned in the report very briefly the damage a family breakdown has on children.

There are issues out there that are far more important and pressing than lads mags and are actually things that you CAN change when you undoubtedly win the next election.

Decreasing the amount of family breakdowns via political incentives are unlikely to have any immediate effect on the welfare of children, but there are things that you can begin to do now and strongly pledge to do before the next election that would help 1000's of children have a much better future.

Since this current government came to power over 100 children a week have been forcibly separated from one of their parents (usually the father) by our Family Law Courts.

This is a national tragedy.  The Children's Act 1989 (although not perfect) should be legislation enough to ensure that fathers are able to play a fair and meaningful part of their children's lives after separation or divorce.  But the our secretive Family Court system is ignoring the spirit of that Act.

I am a father who was separated from his wife back in June 2006.  I have 3 daughters whom I love dearly, but since August 8th last year I have had no contact with them at all.  My wife unilaterally stopped me from seeing them, presumably to spite me.  It took me 4 months to get a hearing for a Contact order.  CAFCASS interviewed my 3 girls without having any idea of the back ground or interviewing either my wife or myself.  During the 4 months that I was unable to see them, I can only presume that my wife turned them against me, because the CAFCASS officer said that my eldest did not want to see me.  She passed on her findings to the judge and he said that based on their ages 14,13 and 11 he would not be making an order for contact.  He generously allowed

me to "write to them once a month and send small gifts at appropriate times", and further instructed my wife to encourage them to respond to my letters.  She told the judge "Oh Yes of course I will".  Since that day I have written to them almost every month and sent gifts for Xmas and their birthdays.  I have not had a single reply!

I am pleading with you as a father yourself and as Shadow Minister for Children to look into the gross injustices that are being dished out to fathers and their children everyday.

Because of the complete lack of regard to my children and my wish to be a father to them, I have recently joined the pressure group Fathers-4- Justice.  Since joining I have quickly come to realise that I have little or no hope of ever getting to see my girls again through the Family Courts.  Some members have been fighting for years and have got nowhere.  Some have cost the hard hit taxpayer millions of £'s in Legal Aid fees and still got nowhere.  What hope then have I, when I do not qualify for legal aid and cannot afford to go back to court time and time again?

Members of this governments cabinet have been approached by Fathers-4-Justice for dialogue, but have had their requests refused.

I ask you as a father to please just sit still for a minute or 2 and try to imagine life without your daughter Beatrice.  Unable to see her, or speak to her for an indeterminate period of time…….  Believe me – take it from someone who knows – it is heart breaking.

As Shadow Minister for Children, please, please, please, just listen to what we have to say.  We are not nutters or crackpots – just fathers who have suffered or are suffering grave injustices from our Family Courts.

You are in a position to listen to us and to have a positive effect that will transform 1000's of children's lives every year.

Yours Sincerely,

A heart broken father of 3 wonderful girls

Tim Line

Post I made on Forum about C4 News

C4 News - Michael Gove MP - Shadow Childrens Secretary - condemns lads mags

Rather than criticising Men’s magazines for making fathers irresponsible, he could put his efforts elsewhere and help fathers and their children in a much more practical way by questioning and criticising this countries appalling record of supporting fathers in the courts.

I think this guy needs to wake up to what is really going on around him.

You can watch it here:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1529573111/bclid1704126470/bctid1711801741

Fathers 4 Justice back Dads fight

Fathers 4 Justice back Dads fight

Campaign group Fathers4Justice is to take up the cudgels on behalf of former Devizes man Tim Line, who has been barred from seeing his three daughters for a year.

Former soldier and international rally driver Mr Line has been separated from his wife of 18 years since June 2006 but last year a court denied him access to his daughters after they told a judge they no longer wanted to see him.

Mr Line, a former sergeant in the Royal Artillery who now lives in Hilperton, near Trowbridge, said all his efforts through the courts had done nothing but earn fees for solicitors.

He said: "It is horrendous to be on your own in the house. No noise. No children playing. It is like a living bereavement."

In May 2006 Mr Line came home from a trip away to be handed a summons to appear in court two days later.

He said: "Our marriage had not been going well but this came right out of the blue.

"My wife's solicitor told me, if I were you, Mr Line, I'd find a place to live in the next few days. I had a molestation order served on me, even though I had never been violent towards my wife or my children."

Mr Line found himself homeless, but worse was to come. He had been given access to his children aged 14, 13 and 11, who still live in the family home.

But the access gradually tailed off and a judge told him last August that his rights had been revoked after the girls said they no longer wanted to visit.

Mr Line said: "The judge said I could write to them and send them small gifts at the appropriate times of year."

He hasn't seen his two younger daughters since. He saw his eldest daughter briefly last Christmas, when he dropped off their presents.

He said: "We hugged and that is the last time I saw her. But since joining Fathers4 Justice I see I have been relatively lucky. Other fathers, like Mark Harris, who went to prison for ten months for waving to his children in the street, are much worse off.

"The law must be changed. Over 300,000 children are stopped from seeing one of their parents, usually the father. Only five per cent of fathers are allowed to see their children every day.

"But solicitors don't want things changed, because they make so much money out of it. They charge £185 an hour and each letter they receive or phone call they deal with costs you £18.50."

Fathers4Justice confirmed it would hold a protest in support of Mr Line, but would not say where and when it would take place.

Fathers4Justice South West co-ordinator Richard Adams said: "Tim Line served Queen and country in the Army for 24 years but as soon as his marriage broke down, this Government's family courts denied him access to his children."

"COMMENT"

I purchased 4 books I thought might be useful:

Fathers Matter: A Guide to Contact on Separation and Divorce by Celia Conrad - £18.50

The Custody Minefield: Parental Separation, Your Rights and the Law by Michael Robinson - £8.99
I Want to See My Kids! by Tina Rayburn - £7.14

Family Court HELL by Mark Harris - £8.54

Email from Mark to Tim Re: Support for Harriet Harman trial.

Hi Again, 

Nah, nothing in F4J is co ordinated! You just get an idea, spread the word and go with fingers crossed! 

Be a waste of time coming up on the 23rd, we're only entering pleas, any forthcoming trial might be better to come to, 

Mark

Email to Mark Harris offering support for Harriet Harman court case

Hi again Mark, 

I’d like to show my support for you and Jolly by coming up to London on 23^rd. 

Is support like this co-ordinated?  Do you share cars etc? 

Tim

Some suggestions

Hello Mate, 

Don't know what part of the Country you are in, but if your kids are in Seend, are you near there too? 

There's a meeting taking place in Bristol on Mon 28 June if you fancy doing something. 

One thought that came to my mind which would put you in the very front of your kids minds would be to do a protest on the roof of Judge Thorpe's gaff in Seend. Quite high up, but a good ladder would get you up and you could take your time doing it. Might be able to find another one or two to join you. 

Have a couple of banners with messages to your kids, add something about Thorpe's courts not helping you or them. 

Need to be up all day/into the evening or more if you can, best go on a Friday as he'll be coming home from the RCJ to it and weekend papers are usually looking for stories, 

Mark

Bristol F4J Meeting

Was invited to an F4J meeting on 28th July in Bristol by Rich.

Re: Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next

Hi Mark, 

Thanks so much for your reply.  I continued to read about your case last night and I am simply stunned. 

I am sorry that I initially came to the conclusion that I did.  

In the beginning, after my split I had a degree of faith in the justice system, that they would do what was fair and right.  I like yourself and thousands of others have found out that the opposite is the case.  Reading everything that I have in the last few days has given me very little in the way of hope, but has at the same time shown me that something has to be done to change this unjust system. 

I am heartened that your actions worked positively for your girls and especially that you and F4J are now actively supported by Lisa now. 

As you are the countries undoubted expert after all you have been through, you obviously know what works and what doesn’t.  What would you suggest my next step/s should be? 

I am more than happy to meet face to face, if you have the time and it would make things easier. 

Best regards, 

Tim Line

Re: Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next

Hi, 

Seen your e mail that was forwarded by Richard Adams.

Just writing to let you know that you are quite wrong re my F4J activity not helping me see my kids unitl they were 16. 

Throughout my years of protest over not seeing my kids, because I made the news on a regular basis, locally and nationally, each kid retained the knowledge that I wanted to see them, loved them and was fighting for them. 

Of course, I still dragged the ex to court on every single occasion, (133 times to be precise) just to keep that knowledge firmily in their minds too. 

My youngest was 11 when she ran away with the 16 year old. 

If you do nothing other than piss about with CAFCASS, MacKenzie friends, waiting for Judges to take your ex on for you, then the months and years of not seeing your kids that follow will turn into children that think you no longer care, are n't bothered about them and they get alienated. Then you are fucked. 

You won't get any form of justice in a family court, they won't enforce jack shit upon your ex., no matter how good a case you might have, so don';t go there with any false illusions. 

If you are genuine about becoming an activist, best get stuck in asap WHILE you go through the nonsense of the family courts. And of course, if you are up to protest, the ex will not be able to avoid talking about your antics in front of the kids, which helps keep your love for them fresh in their minds each day. 

Mark Harris.

RE: Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next

Hi Rich, 

Thanks so much for your reply.  I have just spent several hours reading Mark Harris blog.  I agree there are certainly similarities.  I was also stunned to read about the protest that happened in the village of Seend which is where my wife and girls live in my former house.  This was right after the point that my wife refused to let me see the girls and just before my application for an order. 

I wish I had been involved with F4J back then. 

I have been a member for 2 days and yet already I am getting the impression that alone I do not have much hope of getting anywhere with regards to seeing my kids.  Nothing that Mark Harris did (although I greatly admire him for it) helped him to see his girls until one of them had turned 16. 

I am prepared to become an activist, become involved in direct action etc, but am new to this and would like some sensible advice on what my next step should be. 

For instance, my court fee for my application for an order is still active and the judge told me I could come back once I have 'had time to reflect', whatever that means.  Quite how things are supposed to improve though when I am unable to communicate with them - I don't know. 

Should I go back and try?  And if so, do it with  McKensie friend? 

I am not a quitter, I was in the military for 24 years, I am self-employed now and I will not give up fighting to see them.  I just want to channel my energies in the most effective way. 

Thanks for giving me your phone number.  With your permission, I'd like to give you and Jason a call on Friday evening. 

Best regards, 

Tim Line

Re: Please, I need someone to talk to about my situation and what to do next

(This was a reply that I got to my 1st forum post, sent as an email off forum.)

Tim your case sounds so much like Mark Harris's case which if you do not know about can be read at -

http://www.f4jmarkharris.blogspot.com/

He will probably tell you that the best way of dealing with this is to get on a roof with a banner telling your daughters how much you love them and never give up hope. Your ex certainly seems to be turning your daughters against you

If you need help with direct action there is the infamous Jason Hatch who lives near Trowbridge. His number is ************ and he has always got spare banners including the ones from Buck House.

Good luck
Rich
F4J South West Coordinator
**********

"COMMENT"

This response surprised me somewhat as I had previously thought of F4J as an active pressure group. However, I thought maybe there is a good reason and had plenty of other things to keep me busy like reading the excellent documents that you get access to after becoming a member.

RE: I wish to get actively involved

Dear Sir

We do keep records of everyone who wishes to be an activist. We do not have any plans at the moment to do anything. We will keep your name on file in the meantime, thank you.

Kidn regards
F4J Office