Comments are open

Please feel free to comment or ask questions, but please do not sink to Matt O'Connors level, despite what you might think of him.

F4J is Dead - The Last Word (In Matt's words)

(WARNING - This post contains foul language throughout)

F4J is Dead - The Last Word in Matt's Words 

Get this. I have had a bucket load of shit from people banging on about the F4J name which has about as much value now as a Ferrari badge on a fucking Skoda.

People who paid for some excellent publications to help them and 12 months subscription to the forum now think they 'own' part of F4J, if not all of F4J.  (Actually, most just expect to get what they paid for and not be ripped off)

People who have NOTHING to do with F4J think they own the name!

Well help yourself now boys and girls because with the people I'm about to introduce you to, it will be worth jack shit in a matter of months and you¹ll be running to distance yourself from the cretins filling the vacuum and trashing the name.

Rumours abound that somebody wants to buy the name. 'Buy' F4J. You can't place a monetary value on an idea, on a vision or an ideal. If it was about money I'd have never ploughed £50K in the first place. F4J is not and never will be for sale. F4J is over, dead, kaput.

If it was about money I'd have taken adverts from the vermin solicitors like FNF have or asked for government financial handcuffs. We never took a fucking penny. We were self supporting and were our own men.

You see so many people have now perverted the idea of F4J with charities, copycats, homophobes and god knows what else, that when you remove the guardians of the campaign you are left with a pack of jokers and wannabes stamping their own prejudices over our beautiful ideal.

We also have more founding members of F4J now than we ever had members! Fucking amazing because I can only remember one chap in East Anglia helping me out at the beginning not the hundreds of other 'founders.'

We also have people complaining that we are not:

a) a charity

b) a democracy

c) holding the dicks of all the other fathers groups that can't piss straight as an act of 'unity'.

Has nobody read what F4J bloody stood for???

Now for my sins, some bloke who joined F4J a few weeks ago, climbed a roof without telling anyone and wrote a letter, now thinks he has the right to launch into a vicious personal attack on me and then try and drag my family into it.

(Matt knew about the stunt before it happened and wanted me to phone him hourly while I was up there. F4J SW had contacted the press 3 weeks before I did the stunt and several newspapers had contacted me including the Gazette and Herald who came to my house and interviewed me.  They produced the press release below 2 weeks before the stunt.)

There was a press release 2 weeks BEFORE I did it! 

The letter I posted on the forum.

Not sure where this vicious personal attack is or any attempt to do anything to his family.  If there even is one - it didn't come from me!.

Everyone heard that he had left - but all the nastiness happened AFTER hesupposedly had.  So why?)

Hasn't anyone told him I left!

(Yes he told us that - but he hadn't and this diatribe proves it)

I gone.  I exited stage left.  Used the escape hatch.  Dropped through the trap door  au revoir, adios, ciao, or to re-arrange a popular anglo-saxon phrase so that he can understand: 'off and fuck'.

This is a bloke who by his own admission, on his arrest, was offered a bribe by the Police.

(Am trying to work out how telling him that I had been offered a bribe is bad?  He was paranoid about being infiltrated.  I suggested that as I had been bribed, it was more than likely that others had been too.  I would have thought that to any normal balanced person, telling him this would have demonstrated that I was not interested in monetry reward.  I just want to see my kids)

A man who appeared from nowhere and was removed from the forum by the moderators for more underage shit-stirring than Gary Glitter at a Vietnamese children's home.

(I decided to make this blog as a direct result of being removed by him from the forum.  Not one of my posts were ever removed.  I don't think anything I posted was controversal.  In short I don't know what he is talking about.  The only explanation I got was from 'Jenny' a few days later.  But her email is not backed up by facts)

If people aren't happy with the transition from F4J to another group at least have the cojones to get out as I did when I left FNF and set up F4J.

The reason I am writing this is so that he has something to put on his blog about me as he has threatened to 'expose' the person that probably made the biggest difference to fathers rights in the last 30 years.

Well I hate to shatter any illusions here, but get to the back of the queue of my fan club on that one and given I have left - what is he going to write about on his bitching blog  ice fucking cream cones?

I mean, anyone who can read can find out all about me in my little confessional tome from last year.

The reality is that homophobic hermaphrodites like this with their shrivelled testicles and over hydrated imaginations spend more time attacking their own people and banging out to internet porn than they do fighting for their kids.

Is that going to be their contribution to the fathers movement eh? Fucking harassing me and my family with their vicious, nasty attacks. Their kids will be so proud of them.

This chap, who nobody has ever really heard of, has now resorted to the sort of threats and intimidation that me and my family have had to endure for the last 6 years and provide ample evidence why I was right to leave this movement. No wonder all the talent has abandoned ship it is because of people like them.

(I haven't made threats and I haven't intimidated anyone - it was somewhat the other way around)

And why? Because this guy was asked to show some respect to key people in this movement, people who should deserve and command some acknowledgement yet during the five minutes since this chaps arrival on the scene just weeks ago, he now thinks he is some oracle and expert on this movement and condemns me for being a liability and idiot.

Yes, I agree. Idiot for trying to help road-side faeces like him.

Further he resorts to the same tired old 'drunken' smears which given I am virtually tee total demonstrates his comprehensive ignorance of me, but I have to ask what is he imbibing given his dysfucktional behaviour? A pint of bitter and twisted?

And how dare these people speculate about my private life and personal relationships.

You know nothing about my private life. Just because I ran F4J it doesn't mean you own a piece of me or have a right to comment on my private life in the same way I don't have a right to comment on yours.

As one man, you encapsulate everything that threatens to condemn this movement to history. Men consumed by a fatal cocktail of arrogance and bitterness who seek to rubbish anyone who disagrees with them.

They know fuck all. They have no idea.

You think this was easy? You think this was a great gig? What about the copycats that promised so much? Where did their money go when they were struck off at Companies House?

What credibility did they have? What about their media skills, their strategy, their organisation? All those 'genius' people that run off or were kicked out never to be seen again?

We ran the best campaign group in the world.

It was the slickest, fastest moving campaign model that anyone had ever seen - £11.75million of coverage on a budget of £250 in just one recent demo, leader comments in the Sun, widespread support, a household name on the front pages of every newspaper in this country and you think you can lecture me on how we can do it better?

In thirty years nobody else has even come close and all you can fucking do is put up a hateful blog and some fence posts.

So what fucked up bullshit is going in this blog eh? What answers will you give people, what hope will you supply to the needy, what help will you provide to the desperate as you chase people like me away from doing anything to help those that deserve it.

You ain't helping anyone are you? People like you don't want to help other dads or the kids  you bullshit merchants, Mister Whippy's and coprophiliacs just want to shit on the faces of people that tried to make a difference.

You don't know what its been like to walk five steps in my shoes let alone 6 fucking years, to give up time with my kids to fight for people like you, to give up my career to deal with the shit and flack and sit in the fucking hot seat and take the death threats, threats to my family's safety, shit from the government on one hand and people like you on the other  you couldn't do one fucking jot of what we did big boy in the last six years because you couldn't handle it because you can't take one jot of criticism without resorting to vilifying the people responsible.

People like you are the reason why this movement has been crippled. You are the enemy within, the scum on the fungus of infighting, doing the governments work, dividing people not uniting them, creating chaos where we had discipline and order  if people like you had been left with any say the movement would never have got off the fucking runway.

We would have crashed and burnt on take off.

I can only hope and pray that men of hate like you will be consumed by your own perverted views before you extinguish the last vestiges of hope, strangling the talent and optimism out of this movement through your actions, spreading like cancer through the movement.

You see with the fuck-up merchants of misery and the homophobics, I see everything that fucked this mission up. Our biggest challenge wasn't HM government  it was people like these who did there best to bring me down and wreck Fathers 4 Justice since day one.

People with grudges, names to trash, characters to assassinate, axes to grind, prejudices to bear, women haters, homophobics, Mattophobics, books to sell, egos to feed, the deluded fantasists that think that they can do better. You reckon eh?

Are you going to change the world with yet another blog slagging off Matt O¹Connor?

Whose next? Did you blog about how much you hate your ex-wife? Did that make you feel better? What about the next person who pisses you off, they next? What about your kids  are you going to turn on them next?

Is that the some total of your talent? To join the haters and slaggers who stalk the internet with their poisonous barbs? Just listen to that hate, how it overwhelms and kills off the spirit of Fathers 4 Justice - the spirit of hope, of justice and equality.

What place does hate have in an organisation of hope?

(It doesn't O'Connor. Have I posted anything hateful?  anything like this? This is the only hateful thinkg I have seen since I became a member and it came from you!  All I have done and am going to continue to do, is to expose you for the fraud that you are, the lies you have told, the threats you have made, the money you have taken from the vulnerable and the continual bullshit you feed the papers and anyone else that will listen.  The people that you take for a ride and lie to have a right to know what you're really like.)

Matt O'Connor this, Matt O'Connor that, drunk, fucked up, criminal whatever else you want to throw at me you fuckwit. You know NOTHING.

I'll settle for my kids and my family, my career, the accolades and acknowledgements afforded to me during these last six years because whatever you think of me I was the the only person stupid enough to do the job and make the sacrifices that needed to be made.

Because unlike others I NEVER walked away. I never went 'I'm alright Jack' as just about every other dad has once their case is sorted, no I started something AFTER my case was sorted. I gave my life, my soul, my heart and nearly my sanity to helping people like you.

This Matt O'Connor gave you something you could never have imagined and may well never see again in your lifetime, but I was also a man who was privileged to work with some amazingingly brave and talented people, people we will recognise on the new archived web site. People who made this journey an historic adventure.

Dear all, it is because of scum like this that if I could have burnt F4J down to the ground I would have because I never want to be associated with the people like this.

The kids of these dads must feel real proud of their fathers and the contribution they are making in fucking up and wrecking six years progress and taking the hope we gave fathers and crushing it to dust and bitterness.

To everyone else, left clinging to the wreckage, if you give these people the time of day, if you allow them to fester or prevail, then this movement faces total wipeout.

FNF is discredited, F4J is on the ocean floor where it rightly belongs and the copycat groups and people like this are trampling the name and reputation we left behind.

There has never been a more critical moment in the history of this movement in this country.

Do not let these men of hate and bullshit prevail over the men of hope, keep that flame alive, keep hope burning, keep shining the light into the darkness of the secret courts and never let bastards like this grind you down because one day hope will prevail and dreams of justice will become a reality.

Finally, if I have learnt one lesson in this journey, it is that I also need to change. I cannot afford to start becoming like my enemy or the men of hate. I need time out to rediscover my own humanity and the forgiveness that I talk about but am struggling to find in myself. I find it profoundly difficult when people involve my family and I need to spare them from the actions of people like this and I hope each of you understands how difficult this has been for some of us, but that it must be done for their sakes as much as my own.

In my local garage this morning a young man behind the counter had read an article in a paper about us  you and me and the good people in F4J - and he said 'I had no idea it was you, respect mate, respect.'

Shame some of the people we were campaigning for never afforded F4J the same love and recognition and that¹s why as founder and guardian of the values and ethos of F4J, I did what needed to be done.

F4J is dead.

Long live F4J.

Roll on the Union.

I'll miss many of you and thanks for the great memories. Keep the pressure on and the flag flying. I'm off now to build my new project and walk again in the sunlight.

 

Matt O'Connor

Re:Grow up

(My comments in purple)

Tim, 

You were removed by us, not Matt, for flagrantly encouraging people to write in and complain about F4J on the forum. (I have never done anything of the sort and who exactly is 'us'?)

We have published numerous forum warnings over the last six months informing people on the forum they will be removed without notice if they are disruptive or cause us cause for concern. (I have every post I made right up to the time I was taken off - I will add them to this blog as and when I have time.  I will not allow these people to get away with their perverse lies)

Further, given you have been around for a very short period of time, you have treated the team behind F4J (not including Matt O'Connor) with absolute contempt and disregard and ignored their views, opinions and considerable experience. (I have had no dealings with anyone behind F4J except Nick Langford and Michael Cox and I was talking to and consulting Nick throughout, even after I had been removed from the forum, without any reason being given.  I am not going to counter these accusations with my words, I will simply add our communications for everyone to read for themselves.)

You ran roughshod over them and did your own thing without consulting anyone.  

You could have written in and asked us about your removal - you did not. (as a paying member I would have expected to have been told I had been removed and the reasons why.  Instead I contacted Nick Langford who was as surprised as me.  He looked on the membership list for me and could not even see me on the banned list.  He said "it appears you have been removed completely, it's as though you were never there") 

So in the space of just two weeks since Matt's departure (reality check - he has left to focus in his business) (unfortunately this is not true, he is still posting on the forum, he is threatening people and still trying to control everything) we now have homophobic copycat groups running wild trampling our reputation and you have set up a blog about 'the real Matt O'Connor' to keep everyone informed with the latest updates 'about Matt' - what are you going to write about - Matt's ice cream cones?  (When I mentioned the damage done to F4J to him on the phone, he said "he knew what he was doing, it was all part of his plan and only he knew the big picture and that son of F4J would be much bigger and better than anything the world had ever seen."  He went on to say that 'it' would be announced in early October,)

And this from a man who begged Matt for a signed copy of his book just weeks ago. (I wonder how anyone would know that Matt had given me a book unless this was written or dictated by him?  I DO NOT beg anyone for anything.  Matt kindly offered me a copy of his book and I asked him if he would sign it.  Nick langford was there as a witness to this)

Organisations have rules to keep things from descending into chaos and anarchy which is exactly what we have witnessed  with you (now I am an anarchist?) and with the copycat groups.

The only reason for the forum's continuing existence is to provide help to genuine people who need real help until this transitional period is over and the new organisation is up and running. 

At that point I doubt you'd see Matt O'Connor for dust ever again given the way you and others have treated the man and his family for doing more than anyone else has done in thirty years.

Your children will be very proud of you and the homophobics for trashing the F4J name and the man behind it as well as taking fathers rights so far backwards we will need a telescope to see you.

(I am not homophobic, I have had nothing to do with any copycat groups, except that in the hours after Matt folded F4J I tried to stop copycat groups forming.  As for trashing the good name of F4J, he deliberately did that all by himself)

Jenny

Re: Grow up

But he hasn't left has he? 

Who took me off the forum and why? 

I am a fully paid up member and have not broken any rules.  I have not even had the courtesy of an email to say I had been taken off. 

Other members have the right to know that he hasn't gone anywhere. 

He threw me off the forum because I did not bend under his thinly veiled threats.  If you support someone who is actively trying to stop others from trying to get the law changed, then you are backing the wrong horse.

Tim

Grow up

http://mattoconnorf4j.blogspot.com/ 

Grow up Tim and concentrate on changing the law, not pursuing somebody who has done more for this movement that most and who has left - a fact you and many other people seem unable to accept. 

If it really has come to this and homophobia then god help you all.

 

 Jenny

F4J Admin Team 

Email from Matt - the threat

Hi Tim,

Just to add to what I said yesterday, I think it would be a serious error of judgement to go in with anyone other than the very best people who understand and know the political turf and who have been doing this for years.  (struggling to find much evidence of much success lobbying MP's)

Experience is critical as is message delivery. Putting it bluntly you have no mandate and don’t represent any organisation and would be there as individual fathers which allows politicians to dismiss you on the basis that ‘every case is different.’  (I don't have a mandate?  I have as much mandate as the next father who has been screwed by the courts.  As for not representing any organisation - that was because he had killed it 10 days earlier)

I would be extremely disappointed if the meeting was not rearranged to include Michael Cox and if possible Nick Langford who CAN deliver a succinct, punchy message in minimum time with maximum effect.

Opportunities can wait – there should be no rush to squander them.

I think that if you ignore people like Coxy you will do yourself immense damage in the longer term with the future plans for the fathers movement such as people’s ability to trust you and your judgement given the meeting was rearranged without consulting them and now you are taking somebody else with you, again without consultation.  (I was not aware that I needed permision to lobby an MP - please bear in mind this email was sent to me AFTER Matt had left!)

If you want to play a part in the big picture these guys have to be consulted and included. However, don’t take our advice, after all, what do we know?

Don’t respond to me as I’ll be away for the rest of the week but feel free to liaise with Nick.

Regards


Matt

PS I see that after wanting me there, you never mentioned it yesterday.  (I had wanted him there, but this was before he had closed F4J.  Now I was struggling to take him seriously.  Not only that but the meeting had been rearranged at short notice.  I considered the meeting important and with the party conference coming up, it needed to happen now and not later.  Please note: I got this meeting because I thought it would help not just me, but everyone in the same boat. It was certainly not out of any malice, as it has been painted)  I hadn't mentioned him being there because Coxy had told me the day before that Matt couldn't make it on the new date.

And the reply

When one is in politics, one has to expect to be criticised.  Other opinions are voiced to make change so as to mature and progress  Given your reponse, I now believe that my earlier decision to withdraw was correct.  I was asked by other members to come back into the forum, which is why I made the application to re-join the forum, being a fully paid up F4J member.

It is a pity that the leadership is so confused, and quite clearly incapable of realising the full potential of its membership.

Thanks for the personal comments about my mental capacity it reinforces my original decision.
Regards

Peter Semenenko

Email from F4J to one of it's paid up members

(This message was written a full 10 days AFTER Matt had supposedly left and was written without the knowledge of the moderator Nick Langford) Although not signed by anyone the rhetoric is unmistakable.

We are no longer taking applications for memberships however we are surprised you would want to join an organisation you have been so critical of and given your personal attacks on people who have done more for this movement than you sadly ever will. There are plenty of other groups out there catering for the lunatic fringe which may offer you more suitable
accomodation.

Forum post - To the Fathers Movement - from Matt O'Connor

To the Fathers Movement,

To the people trying to tear me and my family down, who have used children in a way to attack me that no Judge or lawyer has ever done; god forgive you for what you have done.

To those who attack and rail at me; devote your energies now to tearing down the system, not the person who did the most in a lifetime (with the help of others), to do exactly that.

To the people complaining I have gone, you wanted me gone, so here is your opportunity to demonstrate what you can do.

To the people hung up on the name, move on. You can't sail a ship without a captain or fly a plane without a pilot. The name will be torn to a million pieces and tarnished beyond recognition. It has already begun.

To the Americans, free your country of your neutered leadership and it's phony, criminal legitimacy. It is a perversion of everything I ever stood for. Rid yourself of charity and commit to direct action or condemn the next generation. Please, for America's children, do not squander the rest of the US Election. They are counting on you...

To the Canadians, unite behind Kris Titus and follow her to the ends of God's earth.

To those in the UK, get behind those who speak with fairness and balance and of new ways forward. Focus on the construction of a new vehicle, move forward - nobody gives a damn about the badge, or what you wear - it is the people underneath that matter.

To those who continue to stamp, twist and pervert the name, what worth is it? It will become a millstone around your necks within 6 months as it did before and it will reduce our legacy to a laughing stock in the press. Respect my original vision of a 3 year campaign with a beginning, middle and end. Be grateful it endured as it did.

Take the best of you, knit together the fabric of a new campaign and leave the worst of you to fester in their bitterness and anger.

I don't just have faith in you. My children do, and they thank you for starting something that will create a more powerful entity to complete the work F4J was unable to do.

So rise up, stand up, reach up and grasp the lightening rod of change. Join the men of change, the men of justice who work in that ministry and speak of integrity and fairness.

Stand together with them and you will be as strong as the foundations I tried to set down during my service.

And if I had a dying wish it would be to ensure that with every passing day, those that work in the Devil¹s Labyrinth that is the family justice system, are reminded what damage they do when they pervert the course of true justice.

Of that I pray, we would all agree.

Matt O'Connor

Founder, Fathers 4 Justice

The Scottish Sun - Stunts don't do fathers justice

The Scottish Sun - Stunts don't do fathers justice

SELF-PUBLICISING muppet Matt O’Connor has disbanded the ridiculous Fathers4Justice.

Not before time, too. His stupid stunts did nothing to advance the cause of dads heartbroken by custody issues over their kids.

And the horrible incident that O’Connor claims forced his hand says everything about the need for someone serious to take up the baton on behalf of these poor guys.

Brian Philcox decided he would rather gas his kids in his Land Rover than not see them. I wrote at the time that I hope he rots in hell and that opinion stands.

That three-year-old boy and his seven-year-old sister played no part in their parents’ dispute. Yet they paid the ultimate price.

It would be wrong to suggest Fathers4Justice had anything to do with their deaths. But it did nothing to make dads like Philcox realise cries for help — from parading around on roofs in fancy dress to far, far worse — do nothing to ease their plight.

Yes, the law needs to ensure estranged dads aren’t just there to be cash machines and doormats.

But while we wait for that day, let’s remember we’re also not here to be martyrs. 

Family Lore: F4J to carry on?

Speculation that F4J is going to carry on

Email 3 from Tim to Matt over the closure of F4J

Matt, 

I am sorry you feel like that.  I am sure you have been pissed off many times with many people.  I don’t hold a grudge,  I just had to tell you how I felt. 

I liked you before I met you and meeting you the other week did not change my opinion of you. 

I won’t mention it again – I just want to move on with the minimum of damage to our cause.  Any ideas you have to move forward from this point would be welcomed and I hope that one pissed off email from me is not going to fuck that up or terminate our relationship. 

Tim

Reply 2 from Matt to Tim over closure of F4J

Tim, somebody else will be in contact with you from now on.

Good luck,

Matt

(Comment - At this point Matt is still going to the meeting in London)

The Sun - Killer Dad made me fold Fathers 4 Justice

The Sun - Killer Dad made me fold Fathers 4 Justice

For a supposedly 'managed and well thought through' closure of F4J, this newspaper article was a disaster.

The comments attached to it are also horrendous.

I posted the 1st and last comments (purely a coincidence believe it or not) as HeartBrokenDad

Email 2 from Tim to Matt over closure of F4J

Hi Matt, 

I respect your decision, but it doesn’t mean I like it.  When people like me joined F4J and paid our subscription for a year there was nothing on the website to suggest that F4J was not in this for the long haul and certainly nothing there to dissuade us from paying our £30 subscription or from buying merchandise either. 

Clearly I would have put the little money I have to better use if I had known even a hint of what was going on. 

I now have a banner which cost nearly £200 (which I was intending to use again), which is now useless because I was told the fathers-4-justice web address had to be on it,  I have 2 tee-shirts which are also useless and a £30 subscription for something which is closed  down at the drop of a hat.  That pisses me off and I don’t expect I am the only one. I know you will understand where I am coming from here. 

You say there is no going back.  Do you really mean that? 

If you had really planned this – then you would have talked to people first so that the transition would have minimised the infighting that has already started.  That sort of bullshit is only damaging to the cause we are all fighting for and the most important thing (in my book) our credibility.  I can already see any number of press releases next week all saying different things and just making us all look stupid and uncoordinated (which actually is true). 

I accept the reality of what you have done, because I have no choice and yes I agree we need a meeting ASAP – I just wish we had had it BEFORE this broke. 

Sorry if I seem frustrated, but that’s because I am.  It just seems to me that after giving so selflessly for so long you are now being a little selfish and I have to say I don’t really understand why.  Don’t take offence, because none is intended.  Perhaps you can help me understand better when we meet next week. 

Best regards, 

Tim

Reply from Matt to Tim over closure of F4J

Hi Tim,

I hear what you say but it was only ever meant to be a 3 year campaign but have made my (very carefully assessed) decision and hope you respect that because there is no debate about it and no going back.

My support is available for a new group with a new name and I have a few ideas and how you can get press out of this ‘from the ashes’ type story.

We need to sort a meeting out later this week with Coxy, Nick, Guy (if poss) and myself providing we all accept the reality.

If we don’t then obviously I wont be involved but wish you well all the same.

Thanks


Matt

4th Email to Mark - Re: New F4J

Hi Mark, 

Apparently he holds copyright over the name and the intellectual property rights. 

I was trying to shame him into not throwing all his toys out of the pram and have told him that I don’t understand him giving to the cause selflessly over a number of years and then killing it in a way which I can only describe as selfish.  I haven’t got anywhere – but at least I tried.  Have also let him know that I am pissed off at paying £30 for a years membership, buying tee-shirts and merchandise and paying to get a banner made which I was told must have the web address on it and which I intended to use again  – only for him to kill it. 

I know you’re angry – that is obvious, so am I – I feel let down because I pinned my loyalty to something I thought was there for the long haul. 

He probably didn’t support my stunt because he hadn’t thought of it.  I had applied to be an activist when I joined and I got a reply back saying this: 

Dear Sir

 We do keep records of everyone who wishes to be an activist. We do not have any plans at the moment to do anything. We will keep your name on file in the meantime, thank you. 

Kind regards

F4J Office

 I just thought to myself WHAT THE ????????????  I thought this was a direct action group.  So fuck em I’m doing it anyway.  In any case I had support from F4J SW.  Perhaps you giving him shit was why he was talking to me every hour on the phone.  He did tell me on the Friday that he would come down on the Saturday, but he didn’t in the end..

With regards to stunts – I have some ideas, but I think some sort of co-ordinated large stunt to let people know we are very much still here and to act as a kind of re-launch would be a way to go.  I have an idea I’d like to discuss that I think would make a decent impact and yet would result in few or no arrests, cause a fair amount of disruption, have the authorities running around like headless chickens, while at the same time being good fun too (a lot more interesting that sitting on a roof lol).

Mark – no one is in any doubt that this must continue, but I think we need to be more organised.

I think it was you who said to me a couple of months ago ‘nothing is coordinated in F4J’

IMO that’s nuts – we can be much more effective if we work together as a team and get a bit of excitement and momentum going again.  100’s even 1000’s at protests make people sit up and take note.  It’s how we get back to those sort of numbers, but I  the entire website, which if it’s not illegal would be simplicity to get back up and running.

Tim

3rd Reply from Mark - Re: New F4J

Matt CANNOT kill the name off-what's he going to do, pass a law forbidding the term Fathers 4 Justice? Think about it...... Don't pander to his ego either as it makes him worse. 

The very worst thing ANYONE can do-and I've known Matt for years-is to try and chase after him. 

This is the THIRD time he's done this, not the second that's reported (2002, 2006 & now) if he sees it going on without him he'll soon be back-trust me on this one. 

Are you planning another stunt? If so, you'll get 100% backing this time, none of this 'unofficial protest' shit. The day you were up on Thorpe's roof I fell out with him over his crap approach to what you were doing. 

Mark

3rd Email to Mark - Re:New F4J

I have been trying to persuade Matt not to kill the name and undo all the work done so far, but he is having none of it. I didn’t think I’d get anywhere, but thought it was worth a try. So I’m not sure how you’re going to keep the name going. 

We absolutely agree on one thing though.  It is essential we all pull in the same direction otherwise no one is  going to listen to what we have to say. 

Tim 

2nd reply from Mark - Re:New F4J

Well, you're in a minority of one, we're keeping the F4J name, style & format. 

Everyone knows what it stands for and that took seven years to achieve.there is no point going back to square one. 

Over the years it's been proven you can't please all of the people any of the time, so no point even trying. 

Whatever is suggested, people always pull in opposite directions. (we shoukld do this, that, etc, etc, etc). 

Real F4J crashed because they don't do anything and all pull in opposite directions-not because they used the F4J name. (also, the first thing they do is ask for £30). 

If Matt comes back then so be it, business as usual, but if he don't then f**k him. 

Mark